Sunday, 22 October 2017
quote [ It starts with this story in Wisconsin. ]
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Kama-Kiri said @ 10:10am GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Underrated]
You cannot begin to lay out the "proof" by highlighting the story of a woman who lost her driver's licence a few days before the vote and was as a consequence not allowed to vote due to conflicts with her schedule.
In terms of probability, that is not a statistically significant event. |
bbqkink said[2] @ 7:08pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Underrated]
The hell you can't.
She would have been able to vote if the Republicans hadn't passed an onerous ID law specifically designed to block people from voting. And in this case and many others IT WORKED! This is "proof" that in this one case a woman was blocked by voting by a law made to block her from voting. Here is another... Prior to the 2016 election, Eddie Lee Holloway Jr., a 58-year-old African-American man, moved from Illinois to Wisconsin, which implemented a strict voter-ID law for the first time in 2016. He brought his expired Illinois photo ID, birth certificate, and Social Security card to get a photo ID for voting in Wisconsin, but the DMV in Milwaukee rejected his application because the name on his birth certificate read “Eddie Junior Holloway,” the result of a clerical error when it was issued. Holloway ended up making seven trips to different public agencies in two states and spent over $200 in an attempt to correct his birth certificate, but he was never able to obtain a voter ID in Wisconsin. |
HoZay said @ 2:36am GMT on 23rd Oct
They should have led with that Holoway story.
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bbqkink said @ 3:58pm GMT on 23rd Oct
different post.
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bbqkink said[3] @ 6:12pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Underrated]
The word rigged is used to describe situations where unfair advantages are given to one side of a conflict.
And by this definition it was rigged...even if it is just this one woman. But it wasn't just one...Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748) in 2016. According to federal court records, 300,000 registered voters, 9 percent of the electorate, lacked strict forms of voter ID in Wisconsin. A new study by Priorities USA, A new study shows how voter-ID laws decreased turnout among African-American and Democratic voters. And there was illegal campaign adds , money from foreign governments, other voter suppression techniques in other states, voter roll purges and probably a few things I have forgotten...but there is no doubt this election was rigged and mounting evidence was rigged to the point of making a difference in the outcome....and a lady who couldn't vote in Wisconsin. |
norok said @ 5:15pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Anecdotes of procrastinators not getting to vote is hardly proof of systematic "rigging"
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lilmookieesquire said @ 5:54pm GMT on 22nd Oct
It’s voter suppression via red tape- voting should be a holiday.
But I agree it’s not “rigging”, at least when compared to gerrymandering. |
bbqkink said @ 7:21pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Gerrymandering keeps districts noncompetitive, this is about rigging presidential politics and has nothing to do with gerrymandering.
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lilmookieesquire said @ 7:24pm GMT on 22nd Oct
You’re right. People don’t vote for Congress. It has nothing to do with vote rigging.
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bbqkink said @ 7:50pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Damn you have been argumentative lately I do something to piss you off?
And the title of this post is Yes, the election was rigged. Here's the proof. Not The analysis found four times as many states with Republican-skewed state House or Assembly districts than Democratic one AP analysis shows how gerrymandering benefited GOP in 2016 |
arrowhen said @ 9:39pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:4 Funny]
"Damn you have been argumentative lately"
HE LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU! |
bbqkink said @ 10:43pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Insightful]
You have a point it is sorta my nature.
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lilmookieesquire said[1] @ 10:51pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Good]
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lilmookieesquire said @ 9:35pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Informative]
I'm just trying to find some common ground and have having a conversation with norok, and you're digging into gerrymandering not being related to presidential politics. That's nice, but my comment was "(voter suppression) is not 'rigging', at least when compared to gerrymandering". That comment doesn't mean gerrymandering is part of presidential voting. It's about what constitutes vote rigging/election fraud- with gerrymandering being significant (in congressional races) and is something that also suppresses votes.
I get that the title of the post is "THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED" but you miss the entire part where I'm trying to have a conversation with Norok where I'm agreeing with a valid point he is making, and you come in here and derail the conversation thread with some random talking point that doesn't relate while calling me argumentative. Norok has a point that this isn't the most pressing example of vote rigging, and that poorly written articles from Mother Jones are indeed a distraction from more pressing loss of rights- coming, for example, from things like gerrymandering, which is a massive problem. The problem with congress is gerrymandering makes it almost impossible to "vote the bums out" and that goes a long way to suppress voting and makes congress unresponsive to voters (vs lobbyists/"donors"/business interests) |
bbqkink said[2] @ 10:38pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Norok has a point that this isn't the most pressing example of vote rigging,
Ahh But it is. combined with fewer polling place in specific places, fewer times to vote, Sunday voting are all part of a method to reduce votes. And unless you are saying that by gerrymandering it allowed them to pass the ID laws. Gerrymandering allows unequal representation but has nothing to do with rigging elections. And I too like to engage Norok although I doubt his rigged and your gerrymandering have anything in common. I also take your point about jumping in the conversation. In the post I made the other day about the DNC Foo answered about every question no matter who the other person was...sorry not trying to be rude...just apples and oranges. Gerrymandering is an important topic just has nothing to do with this one. "vote the bums out" is not the problem. It easy to throw the bums out, you do it in the primary. It is the reason that there is no compromise, and the center is no longer relevant in our politics. It is the reason Republicans dare not cross whoever controls the primary process. Now you could say it is the reason for the less than 50% who bother to vote at all that people are just sick of the gridlock...but that doesn't explain that only 28.5% of estimated eligible voters show up for the primaries ...that doesn't account for the 50% who don't vote that is eligible voters...any well organizes movement can gain control in the Primaries if they turned out...so. Ya Gerrymandering is interesting but it ain't rigging an election...passing a law that is designed to make voting more difficult proved that it is...that is what this post shows. |
lilmookieesquire said[1] @ 10:54pm GMT on 22nd Oct
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norok said @ 8:37pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Yea, and it's crying wolf like this that numbs people to real loss of rights.
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bbqkink said[3] @ 8:52pm GMT on 22nd Oct
Are these the droids you are looking for?
Wisconsin’s Voter-ID Law Suppressed 200,000 Votes in 2016 (Trump Won by 22,748) The truth about Goo Goo This is just one of the 7 mountains. |
Fish said @ 4:42am GMT on 23rd Oct
[Score:1 Funny]
Occam's razor: She actually actually lost.
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bbqkink said @ 1:55am GMT on 24th Oct
Ya... sorta the point of this post....Its the how part that isn't being cut away.
Every American deserves an equal vote. But in some states, access to voting is becoming less and less equal. |
Fish said @ 4:01am GMT on 24th Oct
Son, I grew up in Chicago. Your side is still stealing elections there and in every other major American city.
You can shove your righteous indignation right up your authoritarian thug ass. |
bbqkink said[2] @ 2:56pm GMT on 24th Oct
First of all I'm 65 years old and secondly I'm from Illinois my self...so save the shuck and jive it don't work on me..sonny. Mayor Daley has been dead a long time and my guess you weren't even alive when he had dead folks voting...how old were you in 1960 squirt? And what did your mom look like....just wondering.
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Fish said @ 2:34am GMT on 25th Oct
If you are as old as you say you're a fucking moron for believing shit a self-sufficient 25 year old has already figured out. No one cares. And you don't know jack shit.
Hillary and the DNC tried very. hard. to steal the election. Jan Schakowsky's husband colluded with the Obama White House to disrupt Trump in Chicago. You can't deny it. The fact that they hide it and their friends in the media won't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Oh, yeah, and this: Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/clinton-campaign-dnc-paid-for-research-that-led-to-russia-dossier/2017/10/24/226fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html?utm_term=.2fafaf3fbfcd There it is, bitch. |
bbqkink said[2] @ 2:40am GMT on 25th Oct
Clinton campaign, DNC paid for research that led to Russia dossier.
Of coarse they did. It was started by GOP candidates in the primary and then taken over by a lawyer associated with Clinton and the DNC...it was opo research. Very good opo it would seem. It was done by professionals and so far none of it has been dis proved and some of it has been corroborated....now the FBI are investigating running down leads and interviewing sources. Hillary and the DNC couldn't find their ass with both hands, if the had this would have been on the front page of the Times and the post. They paid for this and never got to use it. And I'm smart enough to avoid anything OKeffe has anything to do with. |
Fish said @ 3:54am GMT on 25th Oct
Very good opo it would seem.
My sides! |
bbqkink said @ 4:08am GMT on 25th Oct
well none of has been proven wrong..none. And there are several parts we know are true...so Yea pretty good professional job done by a top rated agent at a respected firm.
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Fish said @ 4:16am GMT on 25th Oct
[Score:-2 Troll]
filtered comment under your threshold |
Fish said @ 2:47pm GMT on 25th Oct
[Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold |
bbqkink said[1] @ 2:52pm GMT on 25th Oct
[Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold |
Fish said @ 6:41am GMT on 26th Oct
[Score:-2]
filtered comment under your threshold |
lilmookieesquire said @ 5:58pm GMT on 22nd Oct
“As the months went on, pundits on the right and left turned Clinton’s loss into a case study for her campaign’s incompetence and the Democratic Party’s broader abandonment of the white working class. Voter suppression efforts were practically ignored, when they weren’t mocked.”
Complains about about voting suppression being mocked. Opens with anecdotal story of woman who doesn’t have up to date ID (yes she is busy, has responsibility, and can’t get time off work- but you don’t use “proof” in the title and open it with that. At least bring out the fluffy stats. |
Bruceski said @ 6:06pm GMT on 22nd Oct
[Score:1 Insightful]
I first read that as "fluffy cats" and I have to admit, if there was a box of kittens next to the polling station I'd never make it through the door.
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hellboy said @ 2:23am GMT on 23rd Oct
[Score:1 Funsightful]
Considering that there's a block of states in the Midwest (Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio, Wisconsin) where Clinton did significantly worse than Obama (unlike other states, where she did comparably well or better), the evidence for vote rigging as the cause of her loss would have to be pretty compelling to outweight the many other reasons her campaign fucked itself.
Voter suppression is real, it's not a new thing, and I'm pretty sure it's not limited to the Midwest. |
lilmookieesquire said @ 4:10am GMT on 23rd Oct
Ya I feel like this narrative is the official DNC excuse for the election performance.
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bbqkink said @ 6:13pm GMT on 23rd Oct
One of the several...and just because they said it don't make it wrong.
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HoZay said @ 5:02am GMT on 23rd Oct
The concept of voter suppression isn't new, but a lot of legislation and enabling court decisions are new, and intended to produce this very result.
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hellboy said[1] @ 11:12pm GMT on 23rd Oct
Oh no question. It's a serious problem - I just don't buy that it's the only reason she lost, or even the main reason. After all, as even this article mentions, she never even campaigned in Wisconsin.
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Mythtyn said[1] @ 11:13pm GMT on 23rd Oct
Seems to me that this would affect (lower) republican voting turnout by most peoples standards of republic/trump voter demeanor/intelligence vs affecting the dem vote. People seem to claim only trump voters are moronic enough/low class to have been affected. How can somebody possibly claim that voter suppression by id would have benefited dems?
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