This was one of the big vetting 'questions' while dating - what happened when the check appeared. Most guys would offer to pay for the whole thing, but would be willing to split/separate checks. Some, though, would get visibly, audibly pissed, as if I twisted their nuts off by saying I'd rather pay my own way. Since a Venn diagram of these guys and the ones that think paying for a $15 burger entitled them to a blowjob is a perfect fucking circle, it worked out great as a screening tool.

I'm curious what it's like for dudes at that moment. What do you read into it, if anything? Any spectacularly bad reactions?

I'll have the steak and she'll have the salad...

Looks like I must have left my wallet in my other pair of pants.

While I will always reach for the bill, if she does not offer to split it I assume she is not someone I would be interested in but might be willing to do a second date. If she ate from the top of the menu I will assume she is a gold digger.

I had forgotten how awful that all was. One of the best things about being in a relationship is not having to go through that dating shit.

Testify!

When I was single, I went on two dates, as a result of okcupid. One "jumped my bones", the other went home and deleted her account.

Not much of a custom here luckily. Bills are split unless otherwise explicitly stated by the paying part.

May I ask where your here is?

Sweden

Thanks.

I am enchanted by your exotic and reasonable pragmatic ways.

After a guy offering to get the check, any offer to split should be met with a single, "Are you sure? I'm happy to get it." If the response is in the affirmative, let it go and be happy she's that self possessed. If it was a good experience, as mentioned above, allowing the guy to pay but offering to get the next one is classy, and a good indicator of mutual respect.

I've been doing a lot of dating lately in the DC area. Here's my take:

If it's a woman with a stereotypical DC-style job, she almost always wants to split the check. If the date was meh, I'll agree to split. If the date went well and it looks like there will be second one, I offer to take turns paying because I hate the inconvenience of splitting.

If it's a woman working in retail/food/non-profit/outside of the city, it's about 50/50 on wanting to split or not. Doesn't really bug me either way, but I certainly don't treat the women who let me pay as if they owe me anything for it. Back when I wasn't making as much income, I would have gladly let anyone pay for a meal for me.

What annoys me more than check-splitting issues is the ghosting. I've never had someone I've been personally introduced to ghost on me, but I've found that with dating someone you've met online, it's happens more often than not.

I'll volunteer to show my age/ignorance and ask anyway:

'Ghosting' means the internet equivalent of not returning your phone calls?

It refers to not returning any messages, even if you had just been calling each other.

I thought it was interesting that most (guys) replying assume, de facto, that as the male they still first should offer to pay, even though they would expect/anticipate/welcome the counteroffer to split the bill. In a truly gender-neutral world, I would have thought the opening gambit should go to whoever asked for the date. Or is girls asking guys out still not a thing?

Ours is not a gender neutral world.

Very much not. I've never had a woman ask me out, and I've never had a woman offer to pay a check first.

Right. So isn't it strange then that the focus here is on who pays for dinner, and not the fact that the social structure of a date is divided into gender-specific roles from the outset?

I suppose if you are American it stereo-typically comes down to money being more important than manners, but still... I see it as a role of guest/host. If I am inviting someone out to dinner (students or visitors in my case, but the principle applies since its not a business expense) then I'm the one responsible for seeing the bill is paid, its got nothing to do with a gender.

That's a really interesting point! I suppose if I ever get asked out on a date, I'll see if she offers to pay first or not and get back to you with my findings.

I am always confused by stories of men getting 'upset' when a woman offered to pay/split.

My understanding from a colleague is that if the man has a pre-conceived expectation to pay, the whole thing is because it is a part of their outward image/ego. "See? I can provide for you in the off chance that you would like to mate, bond, etc.".

As a woman, if you offer to pay or split, they (the man) are projecting that you think they cannot afford to pay, provide for them, be a good mate.

Or you are tricking them out of their contractually required blowjob.

The baby boomer generation had/has a lot of... expectations.

Dinner AND a show.

Shit. No wonder my manager looked put out after paying for our departmental Christmas lunch.

I always offer, I feel like there's an expectation for me to offer.
But then, I am lazy and I don't want to count pennies over the meal, so I tend to default to "I'll get this one, you get the next"
But then, if she doesn't at least offer to pay on the first date, the chances of my wanting a second are minimal.

I'd always offer to pay for everything in the first date. If she obviously expects me to pay, meh. If she allows me to pay, proceed with caution. If she offers to split, great. If she pays for everything, Jackpot! Nah, I'd rather alternate or split that be paid for every time.

In my opinion, the perfect response is, "Ok, but I'll cover the bill, next time."