Saturday, 24 February 2018

How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

quote [ The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened. ]

This has come up a lot this week. Thought it should be posted here. Most people who think this can not be dissuaded in their views no matter what evidence you show them....which to me means you have to make the point.

It is only one sentence long and it is not about guns.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The current interpretation is new...On June 26, 2008, in District of Columbia v. Heller (PDF), the United States Supreme Court issued its first decision since 1939 interpreting the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Court ruled that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution confers an individual right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes such as self-defense. It also ruled that two District of Columbia provisions, one that banned handguns and one that required lawful firearms in the home to be disassembled or trigger-locked, violate this right.

United States: Gun Ownership and the Supreme Court
[SFW] [crime & punishment] [+3 Informative]
[by bbqkink@12:09amGMT]

Comments

mechanical contrivance said @ 1:46am GMT on 24th Feb [Score:2]
If I can't buy a bazooka, the terrorists win.
bbqkink said[1] @ 1:59am GMT on 24th Feb
A bazooka is so WWII...lot better blow'em up toys now a days.
This is what we used in the Vietnam era.

Laws rocket
bbqkink said @ 2:28am GMT on 24th Feb
And while we are on the subject...the reason the gun nuts give you is that need to protect us from tyranny of our own government...never mind we still have the vote.

They think a group of red necks with ar15s and say some real full auto weapons and throw in some grenade launchers is going to be any match for our government...LMAO.

10 Insane Military Weapons In Action
HoZay said @ 3:31am GMT on 24th Feb [Score:1 Insightful]
The only logical "resistance" use of AR-type weapons is for an insurgency. Insurgents don't usually engage military, they usually murder civilians to destabilize society and delegitimize authority. School shootings are just a warm-up, proof of concept.
Ussmak said @ 4:53pm GMT on 24th Feb
Yessir, the Vietcong ONLY killed civilians and defenseless water buffalo. Same with the Taliban. ONLY civvies get killed in insurgent warfare alright.
HoZay said @ 6:21pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:2]
I say "usually", you say "ONLY".
Fish said @ 7:49pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-3 Boring]
filtered comment under your threshold
backSLIDER said @ 3:23am GMT on 24th Feb
To plays devils advocate farmers with rifles and rpgs have done surprisingly well in the wars with the US military in the last 50 years.
bbqkink said @ 4:26am GMT on 24th Feb
Garden of Stone

He can march 100 miles on no food,
through a jungle...
:38:04
...slaughter his own people,
even babies. That's a soldier.
:38:08
Firepower.
He can't soak up our firepower.
:38:12
I saw a photo, one of our choppers
coming back with arrows in it!
:38:16
How do you beat a helicopter
with bows and arrows?
:38:20
How you gonna beat an enemy
that fights with arrows?
robotroadkill said @ 4:09am GMT on 24th Feb
http://www.clickhole.com/blogpost/its-our-duty-support-troops-and-second-amendment-c-1929
bbqkink said @ 5:38am GMT on 24th Feb [Score:2]
Haven't seen this in a while time to look again it is Jim Jefferies: Gun Control

Jim Jefferies

4321 said[1] @ 1:33am GMT on 24th Feb

From your link:

"In the majority opinion authored by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court first conducted a textual analysis of the operative clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Court found that this language guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons. The Court examined historical evidence that it found consistent with its textual analysis. The Court then considered the Second Amendment’s prefatory clause, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and determined that while this clause announces a purpose for recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms, it does not limit the operative clause. The Court found that analogous contemporaneous provisions in state constitutions, the Second Amendment’s drafting history, and post-ratification interpretations were consistent with its interpretation of the amendment."


bbqkink said[1] @ 1:38am GMT on 24th Feb
Yes the right does not come from the founders it comes from a very recent right wing court, in the expected 5/4 decision.

The phrase you and Scalia seem not to want to read is well regulated and 18 year old with mental problems is hardly well regulated
rezties said @ 1:51am GMT on 24th Feb
18? Who cares about the mental state of an 18 year old? Why, I don't care about any opinion under the age of 25, when the brain has fully matured.
bbqkink said @ 1:58am GMT on 24th Feb
18 year old is now the legal age to buy a rifle.
rezties said @ 3:29am GMT on 24th Feb
Mmm, mmm. It was also the argument some conservative used to say why we shouldn't care why the school shooting kids are protesting, as if you need to be 25 before you can decide whether you want to be shot. Most people replied in kind -- that it doesn't make sense that the same kids can buy and OWN the guns, if they can't be trusted to decide whether they want to be shot by them.
bbqkink said @ 4:31am GMT on 24th Feb
If you are not mature enough to by beer well...
backSLIDER said @ 4:53am GMT on 24th Feb
I'm going to guess nobody wants to get shot by a gun. Voting or being pro 2a doesn't change that.
mechanical contrivance said @ 5:22am GMT on 24th Feb
Suicidal people do.
backSLIDER said @ 5:45am GMT on 24th Feb
And that makes up a substantial number of gun deaths. And if you believe that people don't have the right to that...
mechanical contrivance said @ 6:11am GMT on 24th Feb
If you want to kill yourself, man up and kick a grizzly bear like we did in the old days.
zarathustra said @ 8:07am GMT on 24th Feb
We? Assuming you are one of the class that wanted to kill yourself in the old days and implemented that plan you must have either backed out before the follow through, in which case don't brag, or after, in which case you are probably a total badass with some awesome scars.
bbqkink said[1] @ 6:19am GMT on 24th Feb
Suicide is the main reason that you are less safe with a gun in your house, not the only reason but by far the main reason.
Fish said @ 7:50pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-5 Troll]
filtered comment under your threshold
norok said[1] @ 9:54am GMT on 24th Feb
If you came to this saying that the relying on the founders was an antiquated throwback to a more immature time then you'd have some ground. But don't think for one minute that the founders had anything other than exactly the opposite of what you believe in mind.
milkman666 said @ 1:08pm GMT on 24th Feb
"Among the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a Uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

The proper establishment of the Troops which may be deemed indispensible, will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy." -George Washington



https://www.snopes.com/george-washington-gun-quote/
Fish said @ 7:48pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-5 Unworthy Self Link]
filtered comment under your threshold
backSLIDER said[1] @ 3:31am GMT on 24th Feb
Thomas Jefferson was a total gun nut and espoused the same reasoning that 2a people continue to repeat. I also believe in the general good in people and that the vast majority of people don't want to murder other people and can be trusted with any weapon.
Here is a much more even handed look at it.
https://thetylt.com/politics/does-the-nra-get-the-second-amendment-all-wrong
bbqkink said @ 10:17pm GMT on 25th Feb


“Those numbers don’t exist because there’s no national registry,” said Jan Kemp, spokeswoman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. “Because by law, we are not allowed to have a national registry.”

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article201882739.html#storylink=cpy

Nobody knows exactly how many assault rifles exist in the U.S. – by design

That's not all....this is probably the most important and easy to fix and shows this is not a debate at all.


Why Can't the U.S. Treat Gun Violence as a Public-Health Problem?

A 1996 bill has had a chilling effect on the CDC’s ability to research firearms.


And background checks until this is fixed the rest is just a joke

In February 2017, President Trump repealed an Obama-era regulation that would have made it easier to block the sale of firearms to people with certain mental illnesses.

Thousands Of People Who Failed Background Checks In 2016 Bought Guns Anyway
bbqkink said @ 4:07am GMT on 27th Feb
Fish said @ 3:41pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-5]
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Ussmak said @ 4:50pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-3]
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rylex said @ 11:21pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-5]
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Fish said @ 11:50pm GMT on 24th Feb [Score:-5]
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rylex said @ 12:12am GMT on 25th Feb [Score:-5]
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