You still voted for them, even though they nominated Hillary. Why should they care?

That’s the other BBQ.

You ready to take responsibility for helping Trump yet?
still think he is just another Republican no big deal?
Happy with the way he is advancing a progressive agenda?

Trump wouldn't be in power if the Democratic establishment didn't know it could count on you to do as you're told.

Are you really that twisted in your mind?

The truth hurts, eh?

No I am wondering if you have any idea of what you are talking about to the point of questioning you sanity.

Oh honey.

So Trump is president because the Democrats knew I would vote against him is that it?

Trump is president because the Democrats knew they could count on you to do as you're told, no matter who they nominated, so they tried to force through someone unelectable.

Clinton received 65,844,610 votes, or 48.2% of the total vote.

Trump received 62,979,636 votes, or 46.1% of the total vote. (That's a difference of 2.86 million votes.)

The remaining 5.7% of the vote went to other candidates, like Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Evan McMullin, and, I don't know, write-ins for flesh-eating bacteria.

It is simple math Clinton was not unelectable Trump was not unelectable every body else was unelectable

Honestly, the way you phrase it, and the way the DNC ran the campaign, the Democratic party is less a political party and more of a protection racket. That has its own costs.

Tactical choices and strategic choices are 2 different things. We're seeing it now play out with both parties. The DNC and the GOP both failed. The GOP has gone full retard rage and is injuring itself. The DNC has sold out so much of itself that its just a husk.

Honestly you guys can do this dance over and over. But consider this

Jim Carrey. You Can Always Fail at What You Don't Love....


and how the most recent expression of this sentiment is the election of Donald Trump.

That is the whole reason for this post ...It certainly wasn't to debate the 2016 election with a non citizen. If you want to dream NOW is the time. The rules for the DNC were changes, by Berni Sanders...It still isn't an open process but it is better than it was.

But if like I fear people don't take advantage of this now...it will be November 4th 2020 and we will hear the same old crap. It will come down to a choice of two just like it did in16...that won't change. What can change is the person chose to represent us.

Not one person even took notice of the main link...sad.

The biggest thread on this post is foo jabbing you on the subject of keeping the DNC solvent by supporting their outdated policies, and you pushing back. That's where all the conversational heat came from because the main post is just another source to be cited on someones future paper on why theres a crater where North Korea used to be.

The second link is a bit more interesting, if you lead with that and used the others as supporting i think we wouldn't end up with a re litigation of whose to blame for the 2016 election.

Democrats Appoint Anti-Minimum-Wage Advocate to Finance Committee

That is the main link. And as far as Keeping the DNC solvent...well they are way behind in donations. And I don't think most people noticed but "they cant be that stupid" comment was aimed at the DNC

The DNC is lagging its Republican counterpart, even though the progressive base is energized to take Donald Trump down.

People haven't forgotten.

The DCCC on the other hand DCCC Hits Record-Breaking Fundraising Number for May Bulk of funds came from grassroots programs

And I'm sorry I have no idea what you meant with NK

I read the main link. Its just exhibit J at this point. Im picking up what you're putting down. I think most folks are. The DNC is still lost in the woods, even the sock puppets would happily agree with that. You supplied supporting material to the effect that its an ongoing issue. Its that issue, with the GOP own fecklessness which gave us a narcissist president looking to put a notch on his belt by turning Pyongyang into vapor.

Agreed...but like I just told Mookie I would have voted for Nixon to keep Trump out of the Whitehouse. And I think you give Trump too much credit he doesn't have plans.

Ladies and Gentleman,

The other BBQ is here!

A round of applause please!

*clap clap clap*

You again? I have always heard that Canadians were polite, but nobody said they were this dense. Let me try one more time...I'll take it slow just for you, this is the 30th or 40th time.

In November 2016 the United States held an election. It was the culmination of almost two years of campaigns and candidates. It came down to two and only two who had a chance to win....I voted for the one who was not a Nazi. Some people discussed didn't vote and some wasted their vote on some one they knew couldn't win...and I'll be go to hell the fucking Nazi won.

" some wasted their vote on some one they knew couldn't win"

Fuck you. Really...Just go fuck yourself with that attitude.

I voted my conscience. If more people didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton we'd be somewhere different today. Seriously.. I couldn't vote for either one, not just because they sucked, but also because the two party domination of US politics has run it's course.

I'm perfectly fine with the outcome because I didn't vote for either turd sandwich unlike you.

This whole "wasting" your vote thing is getting old... Consider for a moment how I could view your vote as wasted too.

How about as an experiment we undo the DNC and RNC control of the presidential debates and let candidates that are on the ballot in all 50 states get time on that stage or do you just think that would be a waste of time too?

Did anybody think that any candidate besides Trump or Clinton could win on November 4th? If you did you were delusional.

I voted my conscience.

You threw your vote away on a protest that no one will ever see...you could have accomplished as much by being dead.

I'm perfectly fine with the outcome

Thank you for making my point. And that is on all of you who take this attitude...Trump is just another Republican...and his election is alright with you.

How about as an experiment we undo the DNC and RNC control of the presidential debates and let candidates that are on the ballot in all 50 states get time on that stage or do you just think that would be a waste of time too?

Good idea...now how do you expect to get that done?

You threw your vote away on a protest that no one will ever see...you could have accomplished as much by being dead.

Oh, I guarantee they did see King's vote. Yours, however, is indistinguishable from any other neoliberal. You sent the message that you want more candidates like Clinton.

The election was lost for progressives as soon as Clinton was nominated. You chose capitulation.

No one saw anybody's vote...it is done in private. If his intention was protest he would have had a lot more exposure writing a letter to the editor of his local newspaper.

And seem to be a little slow on the pick up...I VOTED AGAINST TRUMP to the only possible person that could have beat him.

You can spout all the anti Democratic party nonsense you want, you can even equate Clinton and Trump. But you have no viable alternative, all you have is canned rhetoric and no idea of how the electoral system works...but then you are not even an citizen so it doesn't matter what you think.

You didn't vote against Trump. You voted for Clinton.

You can't be that dumb.

Someone's jimmies are rustled.

Oh, you think the rustles is your ally, you merely adopted the rustles. BBQ was born in it, molded by it. He didn’t see Jimmies until he was already a man; by then, it was nothing to him but rustles! Logic betrays you, because it belongs to BBQ. He will show you where he has made his home, he will be preparing to bring the Neoliberals. Then, he will break the Progressives and the Republicans. Your precious Sensible Endowment, gratefully accepted. He will need it. Ah yes, he was wondering what would break first. Your government, or your politics?

It’s funny because a good chunk of people who voted for Trump were voting against Hilary.

See how that worked out?

Well no shit seeing as it was a two person race at the time.

For the 50th time you had three choices on November 4th

The Democrat ,the Republican, or throw your vote away on a meaningless protest that you knew before you cast it it would have zero electoral consequences. .

The protest is not meaningless. It's the only possible way to get a progressive candidate.

OK let me explain this one more time.

Protest that nobody even sees does nothing... VOTES... are how you get people elected. And votes in November are too late to change nomination. Why is this so hard to understand?

How many progressive candidates did voting for Stein get you?..NONE!!

Well from the other side of the fence Trump was an outsider candidate. A joke going into the primaries. The GOP begrudgingly supported him because they could see he could energize voters. So you should be asking yourself if you want to talk about protest voters, how many regressive candidates did voting for Trump get them? Well Roy Moore for one.

Trump did energize the far right. The same way Bernie would have energized the far left..but Trump has no coattails. Trump campaigned against Moore and Moore won anyway.

The big change on the left was Bernie and not only did he run as a Democrat he changed the way people win run in 2020.

Democrats changing superdelegate rules; a Sanders win

He didn't get the open primaries he wanted but did change the field they play on.

Roy Moore is a Blessing for Democrats his nomination give them something to run against and paints the whole party in a bad light. Chances are he will win and if he does he make McConell's life a living hell and his vote was a GOP vote so it doesn't hurt the Dems at all.

And Bannon is out there recruiting more headaches for the GOP.

The point of this whole post was not to relive 2016 but to show that if people actually want to have a chance to get a populist elected NOW is the time to act. The 3rd way is not going to give up power willingly. My problem is that the people who think voting for Jill Stein 12 years in a row will change anything...

Bernie knew that the only way to get elected is to change the existing party structure not to reinvent the wheel. He has done that and i would be willing to bet the loudest voices here won't vote in the primaries...well the loudest voice can't he is Canadian.

It gets you future progressive candidates. Voting for Clinton reduces future progressive candidates, as you're signaling that you don't care who the DNC runs, you'll vote for them anyway.

It may take a few cycles, but if progressives make it clear that they'll only vote for progressives, the DNC will be forced to run progressives. Otherwise they'll keep running neoliberals.

That battle is fought at the primary level not in the general election. but not voting or voting for anybody who can't possibly win is self defeating.

It may take a few cycles

At what cost...too many dead for me not to fight Nazis like Trump.

This was not McCain or Romney this is Trump and Trump is a different sorta cat.

One that feeds of hyperbole and drama?

You forgot lies...lies are his bread and butter.

They always are, and always will be. This is a battle that is fought everywhere.

This is what I think you will never understand...you will never get total victory for your point of view...learn to take the best deal you can. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Progressives aren't asking for total victory. Clinton isn't on our side at all.

"you knew before you cast it it would have zero electoral consequences. ."

Not true. Stop being dishonest.

A 3rd party candidate does indeed have a chance if allowed the prime time coverage of debates to effectively steal the electoral votes of at least one or more states.

Think about that. My vote was seen contrary to what you might think. 4.5 million votes cast for the leading 3rd party candidate. That is not insignificant and imagine if he had been allowed in the debates. Protest vote? Fuck yeah. 4.5 million votes is a record for a libertarian candidate... and it speaks volumes about what many felt about the DNC and RNC candidates.

Run a better democrat next time if you want to win. You made that choice to lose early... and yes, Trump was never supposed to win, but you assholes gave him the chance by selecting Hillary. Enjoy the next three years as the blame is indeed squarely on you... Or are you going to keep blaming everyone but Hillary and yourselves?

Trump is ineffective and will remain that. Other than executive orders that occasionally get blocked, he isn't going to do major long term harm. Shit, neither house could get shit really done before him either and won't after he is gone. Enjoy the circus that you helped elect.

Not true

Yes it was obvious to all concerned that there was no credible 3rd party challenge on Nov. 4th 2016...the only exception was the Libertarians there was a outside that they could get 5% of the vote and that is a big deal it gets you matching funds the next election...but that was it.

It was either going to be Trump or Clinton

Run a better democrat next time

The problem was there was no viable 3rd party candidate if you don't want it to be about the two major party you need to run a better option. build a better party.

Mine a Sen. Sanders approach was not to reinvent the wheel but rather take the wheel from the incompetents who are holding it...and it almost worked. It did work on the Republican side

Or are you going to keep blaming everyone but Hillary and yourselves?

There is plenty of blame to go around and that would be a good topic for discussion but that is not what this post is about....as a matter of fact this isn't about 2016 at all it is about 2018 and 2020. It is about a DNC not learning the lesson from 16 and still running like nothing happened.

If they keep that up they are just inviting a real 3rd party split. one that would have its own organization outside the party. nothing like that existed in 16. There are two chances of that in 2020....maybe more depending if trump is still in the Whitehouse.

Now is the time to make those plan not 6 months before the election. This post show the contempt the establishment is showing the Sanders wing.

This would also be a fun discussion 3rd party possibility and where would they form on the left or what I see as more likley in the middle with a Kasich and a Democrat especially if Sanders gets the nomination and Trump is still president..as a mater of fact that would be the strongest we have had since Ross Perote...could get real interesting....Ironically the last time a 3rd party won was Lincoln running for the brand new upstart Republicans

None of that 20/20 stuff will come into focus until after 18. Governor's chairs and speakerships in houses of congress in the states is the most important and that is a big uphill fight that the Dems can only win if the get some help from SCOTUS this week...the Gerrymander ruling could be a game changer ..either way.

The biggest question is the 24 seats in the house...that will decide the direction the country will go. everybit as big as Trump election... Like i told you Trumps election is all about the judges.... 18 is all about the gavel who is the speaker of the house....for a lot of reasons.

And because of that decision, the Democrats have little incentive to change. I'm happy that you're content in not voting for a Nazi, I truly am. I made the same decision. But don't pretend that there weren't consequences for voting for the status quo, either.

Oh I know. I had high hopes, a progressive, a populist was going to get a chance put my politics to a vote once in my life...damn. And for all the consternation and hand wringing about can the divide in the party can be healed I see the party elites do what they can to not rock the boat and set up the same way the have ever since Bill Clinton's election.

And there is plenty of incentive to change they lost...the same thing that brought them into power will takes they out...you can't lose that many times and stay in charge...they are for now. and they will be unless people vote in the primaries.

You did have a chance to vote, and you chose to vote for the status quo. I know boomers have a real hard time taking responsibility for their actions, but come on. You could have voted for Stein. You could have sat on your hands. You could even have written in Sanders.

But you chose to vote for Clinton, and now you have to own that.

Let me try this again rreeaalll ssllooowww
I VOTED AGAINST THE NAZI!!!!

Look it was an either or vote. There were 2 two candidates one of them was going to win.

Peter Pan...didn't stand a chance...tinker Bell even with the magic couldn't get 1% of the vote...Canadian votes didn't count. It was a Choice between Clinton and Trump....anything else was a fairy tale and everyone who voted knew that before they pulled the lever.

So you voted against Trump... congrats?

1) The election came down to Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio. Unless you happened to vote in one of those four states, your vote was purely cosmetic anyway.

2) Trump is not a Nazi. He has a lot more in common with Tricky Dick Nixon than Adolf Hitler. He has adopted some outward trappings of fascism such as pandering to big business and the military, but he is non-ideological.

3) Hillary was the worst possible candidate at the worst possible time. If Trump is a passenger jet nosediving to the sea, Hillary was a slow-moving freight train collision. Both were catastrophes, although on different scales and timeframes. If the current predicament can spur enough political activity that we are able to course-correct in time, then it's conceivable that we could be better off with Trump in the long term. Or we could all be going to hell in a handbasket. Either way, the Democratic Party's current leadership doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

"Trump is not a Nazi." is like saying "Paddock didn't kill those people, the rifles did."

Sorry wrong thread

your vote was purely cosmetic anyway.

Amazing how you are echoing Russian Trolls and Republican efforts for the last 10 years and don't see a problem with it.

Trump is not a Nazi

A whole lot of Nazis disagree with you..they got their man elected.

Hillary was the worst possible candidate at the worst possible time
we could be better off with Trump in the long term

I heard this crap before the election and as wrong as it was then at least there was an excuse ...but now that you see what is happening how the hell can you say that and not have your face fall off.

onald Trump is testing the institution of the presidency unlike any of his 43 predecessors. We have never had a president so ill-informed about the nature of his office, so openly mendacious, so self-destructive, or so brazen in his abusive attacks on the courts, the press, Congress (including members of his own party), and even senior officials within his own administration. Trump is a Frankenstein’s monster of past presidents’ worst attributes: Andrew Jackson’s rage; Millard Fillmore’s bigotry; James Buchanan’s incompetence and spite; Theodore Roosevelt’s self-aggrandizement; Richard Nixon’s paranoia, insecurity, and indifference to law; and Bill Clinton’s lack of self-control and reflexive dishonesty.

And Hillary was the worst possible president...

He disdains the rule of law. He’s trampling norms of presidential behavior. And he’s bringing vital institutions down with him.

Let me fix that for you

Old man yells at Canadian who says voting for mickey Mouse will get progressive candidates elected in the US.

It is a free online set of short undergraduate lectures from the University of Washington titled Calling Bullshit in the Age of Big Data. It is a useful and fairly apolitical way of getting at some of these things.

The course was developed by professors Carl Bergstrom and Jevin West as a way to meet what they see as a major need in higher education nationwide, and not as a cute way of filling an undergraduate lecture hall with a provocative sounding course title. They insist that they are seeking to address the serious situation I describe above. They also insist that they are not responding to the Trump administration:

Calling Bullshit (on us all, and on no one in particular)

Bullshit involves language, statistical figures, data graphics, and other forms of presentation intended to persuade by impressing and overwhelming a reader or listener, with a blatant disregard for truth and logical coherence.

Calling bullshit is a performative utterance, a speech act in which one publicly repudiates something objectionable. The scope of targets is broader than bullshit alone. You can call bullshit on bullshit, but you can also call bullshit on lies, treachery, trickery, or injustice.

Calling Bullshit Data Reasoning for the Digital Age

Calling Bullshit 1.1: Introduction to Bullshit

The issue is mathwashing poorly made surveys with "math doesn't lie" statistics.

All stats have assumptions built in them.

The worst are push surveys literally attempting to push someone's opinion in the guise of a survey. And these can all be done with foreign money and directed at particular segments, like battle ground districts in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio.

None of this is new. It's only a thing now because foreign nation actors are using it to great effect. It would be able to beat a good campaign though. That's on the democrats.

This is a shit.

No sources. No regions. No information. Nothing about when “now” is. Can’t compare to news cycles. No information on how the survey was given. No regional information. It looks like they maybe polled 100 people (60 is best practices bare minimum)

It looks like they sampled about 83 people of you estimate some math.

This is what the article is talking about re:bullshit

We know nothing of the age or genders or anything dude.

it is worth noting that the sample of Democratic primary voters is small (356), meaning that the margin of error is relatively high. Still, it suggests that progressives such as Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris are making some headway. The 2020 Democratic primary is the left of the party’s to lose.

The results of the poll can be viewed here.

Bernie Sanders leads in 2020 Democratic primary poll

Omg the y axis is just percentage numbers?!

The very very brief summary of the results are here:
https://zogbyanalytics.com/news/794-the-zogby-poll-feel-the-bern-sanders-early-favorite-among-2020-democratic-hopefuls

We don’t know how this survey was conducted or verified. Is this self reported? Over the internet?

From the reports own summary, from 350 people they “oversurveyed” Hispanics and blacks.

Making headway against whom?

The primaries are not “the left’s to lose” because a primary is literally built to entrench interests vs democracy within registered dem voters.

I’m not saying you’re not right because of these stats, but these stats don’t really support anything you’ve said.

The quality (or lack thereof) of that graph is a major warning sign regarding survey standards, quality and techniques.

All that I have said is the DNC is tone deaf to the populist wing of the party.
(That is the main link in this post I'm wondering if anybody clicked it.)
I am also saying that the populist wing is ascendant and the main energy inside the party at the same time the 3rd way or the establishment if you prefer is absent any message or direction.

Hiring Halpern a guy who has "reliably opposed the minimum wage" is so anti populist it makes my head swim. The party is pro worker or it isn't...if it isn't I am not a Democrat....

But what I have been talking about is how stupid it was to let Trump get anywhere near the white house...even if he was running against Richard Nixon's ghost I would have voted for the ghost...knowing that nothing would be worse.

Ages of top 3 selections: 76, 74, 68.
Also interesting: Zuckerberg ahead of Harris??? Fourth in popularity?
You really gotta have heart to be a Democrat. Of course, you have to not have one to be a Republican, so there's that.