Wednesday, 5 March 2014

Subscriptions and things

quote [ your an onanism! ]

As promised.

While visiting my grandparents this past weekend I got a chance to chill with my brother-in-law who, coincidentally enough, happens to be an ex-SEer. He left SE way back during its prime and I couldn't help but think that the SE he described was something I think a lot of the current community wouldn't recognize. Back during the prime SE days you would hit f5 every few minutes, because that's how often a new post would show up. There was simply that much content being posted that you never had to wait very long for something new. And when I say new, I mean new, SE used to be close to the cutting edge of what was happening on the internet. The only sites I can really think of that would beat it out would've been 4chan and maybe slashdot for tech stuff. Reddit wasn't even on the radar yet. The amount of traffic SE wielded was capable of dropping servers in a few minutes or kickstarting a fresh viral video across the world. Y'know, from metacafe, or when youtube finally showed up ;) Remember pre-youtube??? Sadly, those days are and have been long gone for quite some time now. I'm not saying I can get us back to that level of being an internet powerhouse, but I believe I can bring back something that did get lost along the way. I believe I can make it fun again.

I believe I can help rebuild the community into the type of place that attracts people and makes them want to take part. I believe I can rebuild the site into the sort of place that you would want to share with your friends, knowing that they would see the appeal.

::turns chair around and sits down, straddling the back::

I'm gonna drop some harsh truth on you that I know a lot of people have been ignoring for some time. The original SE could come back online tomorrow, totally possible, but it's just a matter of time before it dies again. The SE code was written by matt (curse or praise his name) back in 2003. It was written with no regards for security, as a way for him to practice his programming. It was quick, dirty, and it did the job. The last time I'm aware of the SE code having any sort of major implemented work done on it was when Marck switched hosts 3,4, maybe even 5 years ago. And it wasn't even an upgrade, it was a patch job to get the old code working on the server. Kind of like the equivalent of getting an hdmi adapter for an original NES. Still functional and still did the job, but it was still the same old system and eventually no one was going to support it. And that's where the SE code is coming up on. The changes Marck made years ago are the same changes I threw into place last week. Marck didn't do anything else, I know that because many of the pranks I used to play on the old site relied on all the holes he left in place. SE was written for a version of php that is 11 years old and many of the functions SE relies on are becoming deprecated. What that means is the functions are obsolete and will eventually be removed in future versions. In other words, either the code needs to be upgraded or the server needs to stay old and open to security holes that hackers are going to take advantage of to infect/take over the server. It's the same reason Microsoft can't drop XP support yet, too many vulnerable users still using it. The difference is, there aren't a million computers out there using the SE code, the programming language has moved on and support is going to be pulled out from under it. Those are the two options for the future of an unsupported SE, die or be hacked.

Now, before I get into talking upgrades, subscriptions, and money, allow me to tell you who I am and where I'm coming from. I'm a guy with a cat, a truck, an old laptop/cell/tablet, and a torn up tent. That's about it. As far as material possessions, I have a few rubbermaid style containers I keep all my belongings in. About 40% of those belongings happen to be books for research. 10% clothes, the rest is food and camping/cooking tools. I don't consider myself to be a minimalist or an ascetic, so much as a person that really wants to focus on certain lifelong goals and is willing to give up on the joys of the latest and greatest toys if that's what it takes to get there. I've been floating around Florida for the past few years between campgrounds and friends and family. I love the solitude of the woods, but my ultimate goal is to travel around America and eventually the world meeting people and interviewing them about the two things I think create the biggest influence in people's lives; Religion/spirituality and sexuality. I also have a great love for a children's charity I volunteer with called Dreamflight and I hope to start my own charity in the future. I guess the point I'm trying to get across here is that I'm not looking to get into this to get rich, the money is a necessity for me to survive, but it's the freedom this would allow me and the chance to create something that I think could be helpful to the world at large that really drives me.

Subscriptions, donations, any monies will go towards hosting overhead and my time spent on working on the site instead of me earning money elsewhere. My goal is to be able treat SE like a part time job in order to offer the community the support and stability it has been sorely lacking for many years. The reason for subscriptions instead of one time donations is so that I can have some stability as well. If I'm doing work on mturk I need to stay close to civilization and online all the time, if I'm working on the site, however, I can be out and about or in the woods coding in my tent and hopping online once or twice a day to upload the latest code and take care of the latest bug reports/trouble tickets. (Yes, there will be a place to report bugs and request support. weird, right?) The minimum number I came up with when this started out was $500 a month and I'm still going for that. If it ends up being greater than that, awesome, but it doesn't really change my plans other than give me a cushion before I have to start worrying. I'm putting a lot of faith into the community that I'm not going to dedicate a lot of time to this and then find myself broke, abandoned, and holding the bill. That would be a bummer.

But let's focus on what that money will go towards, shall we?

Upgrading the site's code so it doesn't die or get hacked in the future.

A Support center where you can report bugs, ask for help, and request features. Also the ability to vote, comment, and track progress of these report/requests.

The ability to change your password. done
the ability to change your emaildone
rss feeddone
A working search! done
wysiwig style comment boxsubscriber beta
notification page that tells you when someone commented on your post or replied to a comment you made.done-ish
The ability to have your password reset if you forget it.done
comment editing.done
a better easier to manage pm systemdone-ish
new posting options ( think polls, mafia options, automatic link detail retrieval like on facebook)
random image submission and voting system.
a logo submission and voting system? maybe. haven't decided on this yet.
updated html for the site over all - you do not want to see how this is all strung together behind the scenes.
a sock alert system


a mobile site or app. we'll talk about this when the feature request system is up.

Eventually a level/xp/achievement system to balance out what karma doesn't cover. This will expand on telling you the type of karma you receive but will also show you your relationships with other people. Karma covers HOW people perceive you, but the xp system will cover WHAT you do. This will lead into a revamped profile page that might tell you who your nemesis/ally is or something fun like that, plus inventory management. inventory? yes, inventory ;) I'm looking into figuring out a way so that people aren't so afraid of negative karma. A bad post or downmod shouldn't be the end of the world that it is to some people. This will help balance that out. This system will also offer challenges and something like a bounty board where people can earn extra xp by making posts in categories that haven't been receiving attention.

-----------------

Subscribers... if you're looking to subscribe for the features then subscribing probably won't be for you. If you're looking for a way to help support the community and help rebuild its identity by offering it a path towards stability and longevity then, thank you, and this is what i've come up with so far.

$5/month Silver and up
5 mods for subscribers only - we'll have a post where people can comment what they should be and top voted will win.

--------------
$10/month Gold and up - gold is really the subscription I'm looking to sell here, 50 golds and we're good
The 5 additional mods
1 personal mod of your choice just for you.
1 banner ad that will be among the pool of other subscribers' ads - I haven't decided if it will be for non subscribers that see them or just non users. But if you've got an etsy shop or a blog you want to push. or a dating profile? this is for you.
the ability to click a notification on your notification page and link directly to the comment.
---------------


$20+/month Platinum - this is mainly for those that really want to contribute more to the community.
all the gold stuff
the ability to gift the additional silver subscriptions the gift resets each month(anonymously, if you like)

...I don't know. The subscription levels only came about because there are some people that really wanted to donate more and I would like to give them something additional. I am open to suggestions and the feature requests will also be for subscription feature requests as well.
-----------------

Here's the current link for subscribing. Eventually I'm going to have the whole thing automated but I need to write the code for that too so if you do donate please be patient. I've got to write the code for all these gifts and things as well. so patience patience patience. thank you :)

Here's a link to subscribe if you're interested:Subscriptions

apologies for any typos or misspellings I've missed ;)
[SFW] [Meta SE] [+10 Interesting]
[by steele@9:55amGMT]

Comments

cakkafracle said @ 12:15am GMT on 28th Feb
This idea will kill this site even deader than it has been...
cakkafracle said @ 12:28am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Interesting]
Can I just add... I've seen the base code, downloaded a copy for myself.

It is junk... It was perhaps 'modern' in 2003, but it is so poorly built from an architectural standpoint that it borders on, nay, resides fully in omfgland.

Start from scratch, build a proper site using HTML5 on a modern framework, and you may have something. You can even make it *look* like this old beast, for continuity, but please don't try to make us pay you to turn our septic tank into a disco hall...
steele said @ 12:47am GMT on 28th Feb
I plan on hollowing out the core and replacing everything as I go along. Ultimately even the html will be replaced with something probably based on bootstrap.

As for the premature death knell, we're here because of the current subscribers that chipped in to get us started. We're about 60% towards our monthly goal now and the idea came about because of those that wanted to kick in money to get things up and going. I'm pretty confident I can find a balance that will work for everyone.
cakkafracle said @ 1:00am GMT on 28th Feb
as you wish. I just don't know why anyone who knows how to build a website would bother taking on a 10 year old code base when you could easily replicate this site from scratch in a matter of weeks with a fresh, modern toolkit
steele said @ 1:09am GMT on 28th Feb
Well, clearly I don't know what i'm doing then. Feel free to make recommendations. I'm always open to suggestions.
cakkafracle said @ 1:13am GMT on 28th Feb
sorry if I am coming across like a dick. I love this community and it's fragile enough already.

I haven't even donated a dime, so I should just shut up.
steele said @ 1:16am GMT on 28th Feb
It's cool to have an opinion. this was the idea that I came up with when the original site was down and no one was doing anything about it. Enough people liked it and were willing to support it so here we are.
cakkafracle said @ 1:20am GMT on 28th Feb
I wish I'd been involved in these conversations, I would have loved to help.
Like i said, I have a hosting account of my own, I would gladly set up free hosting as part of my contribution.
Plus that would allow me unfettered access to the code so I could be the ghost in the machine, so to speak mwahahahah
steele said @ 1:27am GMT on 28th Feb
I have hosting too, it's cool. Thank you :)
lilmookieesquire said @ 2:31am GMT on 28th Feb
Opinions are free of charge, but if you were going to pay your off, you'd still need to cough up a couple million dollars HIYOOOOOOOO! *heart heart heart*
cakkafracle said @ 1:09am GMT on 28th Feb
I am boggling over the monthly goal.... 50 x $10/month???
jesus what are you paying for hosting?
conception said @ 1:12am GMT on 28th Feb
I think the plan is to make SE his job full time effectively.
conception said @ 1:47am GMT on 28th Feb
re-read- part time job.

Thought it was 500 x 10 at first.
steele said @ 1:55am GMT on 28th Feb
I wouldn't even know what to do with that. I mean yeah, hookers, but after they get boring?
mechanical contrivance said @ 2:36am GMT on 28th Feb
Cocaine's a hell of a drug.
steele said @ 3:38am GMT on 28th Feb
I refuse to touch cocaine because weed is a hell of a drug :)
steele said @ 1:14am GMT on 28th Feb
Right now, not very much but I'm hoping to move it over into amazon's servers as I build it up. I've easily spent 40 hours on this site in the past week. Again, I'm hoping to offer the support and structure that Marck didn't. This allows me to treat it like a part time job and ensure that SE always has someone to watch over it.
kylemcbitch said @ 1:16am GMT on 28th Feb
I work at an ISP here in Seattle, I could get up cheap hosting, free DNS, and unlimited storage and bandwidth (well, not unlimited but "unlimited within reason" which tends to be quite high)

But that's not the point of the money, I think. It's for hosting (very little) and steele's time in development and administration for the site. I am just a tech support monkey, I am not well versed in programming or scripting, or I'd offer those skills instead of cash.

SE was sorely hurting for an active admin and fresh development.
cakkafracle said @ 1:23am GMT on 28th Feb
again, i must have missed those memos. I would love to be involved in a collective on this.
But if Steele is actually needing work and this is a good way to provide that for him, then me offering to be involved for free takes away his potential income.

din't want the poor guy to starve.
steele said @ 1:25am GMT on 28th Feb
nor would I :)
cakkafracle said @ 1:30am GMT on 28th Feb
Ok I'm a gold member now... can I get my Gold Star?

steele said @ 1:34am GMT on 28th Feb
Thank you! Now let's go beat up some snitches ;)
kylemcbitch said @ 12:34am GMT on 28th Feb
Which idea would that be? Because it seems to be that we have donors and users, cat marrying dogs, and the world's still here.
steele said @ 12:41am GMT on 28th Feb
It's probably the twinkie.
Dumbledorito said @ 12:48am GMT on 28th Feb
This is strange. When I click on the title on the main page, "Subscriptions and Things," I can read the post and the comments, but the site says I'm not logged in.

However, if I use the "click here to read the rest of this entry," I see the post, the comments, and I'm logged in.

It's not an incredible bug or anything, but I thought you'd like to know in case it's a sign of something amiss that needs an extra 0 or 1 added to it.
steele said @ 12:55am GMT on 28th Feb
fixed. it's the cookies. I'm putting it on the list of things to fix.
cakkafracle said @ 12:48am GMT on 28th Feb
subscriptions...
Arrowhen said @ 12:56am GMT on 28th Feb
Are you volunteering to host and maintain the site for free, then?
cakkafracle said @ 1:03am GMT on 28th Feb
I can offer free hosting and would love to contribute for free, sure.

I wouldn't want to be the only one working on it, personally, since I already have a full time job building sites/apps all day.

and I do like to get laid on occasion
conception said @ 1:11am GMT on 28th Feb
Disclaimer: Already tossed in some bucks.

Hosting is a trivial cost. You can run a website for like a mocha frap a month and shouldn't be used as a point of evidence for needing cash for the site.

Maint is more reasonable.
kylemcbitch said @ 12:57am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
Seems like it's fine so far? I am a subscriber and I do so out of a sense of community with SE. Any benefit I'd get from it... meh? I would be the first person to tell Steele to knock it off if he gave me something clearly superior to the rest of the users. It might be nice to make a custom +/- mod or change someone's username as a prank, but I don't see that as something worth taking your ball and going home over if you can't do the same cause you're not a subscriber.
cakkafracle said @ 1:04am GMT on 28th Feb
I'm all for pitching in... just don't create a community of elites or an over-privileged few... Forums have a way of dying when the sneetches start fucking with things
kylemcbitch said @ 1:10am GMT on 28th Feb
I completely agree, this is after all a user generated content system. I am lazy these days and barely post anything. I think that someone that post a lot and is held in good standing should feel welcome even if they can't pay real monies. If I got nothing for my money but the knowledge that SE would be okay, I could live with that.

Though I am certainly not going to turn down the chance to change someone's nickname to douchesprinkle for a day.
steele said @ 1:24am GMT on 28th Feb
I've had plenty of people telling me they're cool with the idea but they can't afford it right now and I tell them all the same thing. Just post and comment, take part. That's all. I'm confident there are enough people that understand what I'm trying for and are down to support it. If it starts not working out then we change what we're doing, that's all. This way everyone can be assured that the site won't be left to rot. It's a plus for me because I can work on the road, and I get to try out different ideas.
buzhidao said @ 1:30am GMT on 28th Feb
hey, i;m donating and i hardly ever make a peep on the site, and what kylemcbitch said, i dont want anything special. i'll still mostly lurk. but those few days where i had to wander half awake over to the facebook page while i had my coffee were awful. i just wanted se with my morning coffee. so i chipped in. if it got all elitist here on account of some folks chipping in, i'd be pretty disappointed. (although i have to say nothing seemed so elitist to me as that whole negative post gossipfest bullshit that evidently went on during the last iteration, so maybe i've got a weird threshold or something).
radioelectric said @ 3:49pm GMT on 28th Feb
I have a major personal issue with paying subscriptions for things. Part of it comes from having lived on very narrow margins and had my finances fucked over (bank charges etc.) by those sorts of automatic payments. Also, I know that if I paid for a three month subscription (for example) I'd feel guilty about any time I spent *not* on this site (wasting money etc).

I understand your reasons for wanting to have this subscription structure, and I doubt I will change your mind, but I would suggest having something else in there eventually for those of us who would rather support the site in another way.

I suggest you take a look at what b3ta.com do. They have very small cute little user icons, the same height as one line of text. They're designed by friends of the site and then go on sale for a limited time for a few dollars. That would, I imagine, be quite easy to do here as well. You could also have a more expensive option for custom icons. Something like:

$3 - Buy the current on-sale icon design to use forever
$20 - Get a custom icon (price is justified as you might have to add it manually)
Silver members get the current icon design when they sign up.
Gold members get all icons that go on sale during their membership period.
Platinum members also get all icons and one free custom icon when they subscribe.
steele said @ 4:15pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Insightful]
I totally get where you're coming from. there are other options on the horizon. the big thing right now is making sure I don't find myself in the middle of the woods one day with a bunch of bills to pay and freshly written code with no userbase.

I like these ideas, and they'll be added to the other ideas people are offering for one time donations. thank you.
lilmookieesquire said @ 12:22am GMT on 28th Feb
I like and agree with the concepts- but it it possible to add micro subscriptions of say $1 and or an annual payment system- one that suits subscribers? I'm not sure how paypal works options-wise and how reasonable/unreasonable the request is, but if someone wants to pay money to help SE work, I think that should be catered to.

That said, I understand you are trying to basically make a T-ford 2014-California-street-legal and that's a lot of work.

Personally I enjoyed the circa-2002-SE, but I think we'd all like to see SE evolve and thrive more than it was. That said, I think SE's core value is it's community, and I think that's something we should take advantage of in the future, in terms of ideas and organic/democratic growth...

And I think that's very possible... over the years, I've seen a LOT of talent inside SE. Art/programming/crafts/writing/what-have-you. We have lawyers, political wonks, programmers, craftsmen and quite a few specialists hiding in the shadows... So I think as SE grows, evolves and becomes more stable, those are key values and competencies we should encourage and foster. The SE community is the value of this website and why I come here.

That said, thank you for taking the initiative to save the SE community. I think you preformed a heart transplant, and you did an amazing job of making it look easy.

Sensible Erection, in my eyes, is dead. It's been dying for a long time. I'm glad it's gone... I always thought SE could have been one of the greats had it been... handled properly.

Personally I think Matt tried to micromanage too much, and St. Marck didn't manage at all. I think a nice balance will be struck in the future and I really appreciate all the work you've done to make this happen.

And I'm glad so many people came over from SE.

I'd really like to see this grow and I'm willing to make minor sacrifices to see that happen as long as we can retain the core values and have community driven evolution- which is what I think I'm seeing.

So please carry on, and thank you.

That's my buck fifty.
lalanda said @ 12:33am GMT on 28th Feb
There's a $1.50 level?
lilmookieesquire said @ 1:00am GMT on 28th Feb
TOO MUCH MONEY! I won't be satisfied until there's a 5cent donation level.
bltrocker said @ 9:00pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Insightful]
Screw you. Ha'penny level or I'm out.
steele said @ 1:00am GMT on 28th Feb
paypal would eat most of a dollar. maybe one day. the more options we create the more complicated things become on my end when I'm still trying to get things stable. so for now. these are our options. once things are moving forward we can revisit the things like micropayments and whatnots that everybody seems to have such a hardon for.
twinkle said @ 12:41am GMT on 28th Feb
do you accept dogecoin
steele said @ 12:48am GMT on 28th Feb
I'm afraid not. much apologies.
conception said @ 12:54am GMT on 28th Feb
why not? It's super easy to accept cryptos and convert them to cash instantly.
conception said @ 12:54am GMT on 28th Feb
and its cheaper than paypal.
steele said @ 12:55am GMT on 28th Feb
maybe one day, not right now.
cb361 said @ 1:03am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:3 Good]
I'm too tired to read through the whole post right now - I will in the morning, but my first thought is that I don't really care what SE was back in the Age of Myths. I've only known SE in its present form, but its been in that form for the nine or so years since I joined, and for me that's the true SE, the community that I've grown to love. So I don't hark back to a better age - for me, Marck's tenure was the golden age. The core of community held mostly firm in spite of Marck's apathy. I guess all I want and need from SE2 is the same, with an assurance that the the website isn't going to vanish.
conception said @ 1:14am GMT on 28th Feb
On that point- who else has all the passwords and account information for when you die/get bored/hate everyone?
steele said @ 1:26am GMT on 28th Feb
I've actually been thinking about that :)
cakkafracle said @ 1:26am GMT on 28th Feb
I was a member since 2003. I have run out of fingers tho so I don't know how long ago that was.

I remember matt, that fucking douche. made us Mac users look bad. I miss him.

oh and WHERE THE FUCK IS JOECAM?? has it been confirmed he's dead or what?

steele said @ 1:26am GMT on 28th Feb
I sent JOECAM an email a few years ago and never heard back from him :-/
lilmookieesquire said @ 2:28am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:4 Underrated]
Same. I've searched online and he never opened the PM I sent him. I'm guessing he either couldn't figure out his password one day, or he's posting awesome photos in heaven (+1 this if you cry everytime)
Tirade said @ 4:46am GMT on 1st Mar
Joecam would have loved this post.
lilmookieesquire said @ 1:30am GMT on 4th Mar
Post in Peace Joecam.
monday said @ 2:02am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
This is the boat I also find myself in. Lord knows I rarely contributed, but there was something about the neglect of the site and the willingness in spite of that for people to keep coming back and posting things. It was/is a community I love(d) being even a small part of.

Part of the charm for me was forgetting where I was when I was reading something. Then I'd think, hey, I should show this to (friend/girlfriend/familymember), then remembering, "Oh yeah, but I'd have to explain away why I was up at 3 in the morning laughing hysterically about ranch and rape and what-not." SE was and is, because of that, all mine in a way. And even now with a family and kiddos and responsibility that I didn't have back when I dreamed up this amazingly brilliant user name, I still feel that way.

Short version, I'll probably kick in to keep the lights on, and you can patch up the walls and paint everything and put in recessed lighting if you all want to, but for idiots like me you don't need to, I'll still come.
cakkafracle said @ 1:34am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2 Funny]
It would be awesome if we could convince Klout.com to use SE as a metric.
GreatCthuCthu said @ 1:58am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Original]
I can affirm that this man is who he says he is and lives like he says he does. No joke. Cat, car, tent. It's fairly admirable.
steele said @ 2:01am GMT on 28th Feb
There's no +1 Shucks :)
blacksun said @ 4:35am GMT on 28th Feb
How and where to do you usually get your internet connection? Where do you work? Just curious. I hope to work from the road soon.
steele said @ 4:50am GMT on 28th Feb
I tether to my android phone using easytether it's an app that has paid for itself over and over again. I sometimes run into issues depending on where I'm camping because of lack signal but I can usually find a lake or something nearby that's wide open enough for me to get online for a few minutes. You really do need to be more mindful about what you download though, a lot of phones can't handle the heavy data transfer and will over heat causing your battery to not charge until its cooled down.
blacksun said @ 2:16am GMT on 28th Feb
I have a few thoughts. First I guess, I'm glad someone stepped up to take charge and become the site admin SE so badly needed. So, thanks for that steele.

But at the same time, I was kind of hoping there would be this time "someday" where the great minds of SE could all work together to combine talents and really whip up some neat code, new designs, new features etc. I know you probably aren't against that steele, but I'm not sure if it fits with your membership / admin structure.

Regarding the membership and pricing. Personally, and I'm not trying to be negative, I wonder if A) enough people will sign up at those fees for month after month, but more importantly, B) is there really enough work to be done after say 3 months. What about 6 months?

What about an alternate plan. Make a clearly defined list of itemized goals for the website, as agreed and supported on by the community. Then make a "bid" price for all those updates and setup a donation box, or PitchIn box on the site. That way there's a clearly defined goal for a clearly defined amount of money. I suppose a downside is that there's no reward or separation between donors and non-donors.

Just some ideas. I don't want to put sand in the gears. Thanks.
mechavolt said @ 2:27am GMT on 28th Feb
Personally, I think a subscription can work for this purpose as well. Steele has an obligation to be open and honest about what's going on, because if he starts acting shady, all people have to do is drop their subscription. And I like the subscription better than a one-time payment, largely because a stable flow of money is a much better incentive for steele to work for us.

As for clearly defined goals, I agree. A list with items that could be voted on might be nice. And maybe we could have categories for the subscriptions, like a choice to have my money go towards upgrading comments specifically.
steele said @ 3:09am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Good]
The 500 number came about as the minimum I could get by with to dedicate time to the site instead of my alternate income source which is mturk.com. I make okay money but I do so working crazy hours and slave wages. So I can't really split half and half. It's kind of an all or nothing sort of thing.

The reason i'm not down for a massive group thing is because that "someday" has been tried a couple of times and it always ends up being a lot of talk but not much action. As far as graphic stuff/ maybe design I'll probably be asking for help from the community. Going to be making a post tomorrow probably about a logo contest or something. But when it comes to actually making changes in the site and getting things done I'm going to rely on myself for the most part.

The support section, being bug reports /feature requests is the best I can offer as a layer of transparency AND a voice. This way everyone has a general idea of what I'm planning, working on, and whether or not i'm doing the job of supporting the site I said I would. If not people will pull their subscription. I'm trusting everyone not to do that anyway, but I do trust those that are involved. If I can pull off what I'm envisioning I don't think that will be an issue. People will also be able to vote and comment on the features giving me an idea of what I should prioritize. I'll do my best to be open minded about what needs to be done but ultimately it will be my call.

I'm willing, I already have, gone forward with taking the chance that this can work out. Slowly, but surely, the number is getting close to where I need it to be and I'll do my best to prove to the community that I'm earning my pay. Think about it this way, even if I spend only two hours a day checking messages, going through the logs and keeping an eye on things, I'm still making less than 9 an hour on average. The reality of the situation is I'll be making chump change while I'm doing all the coding and things. And that's okay with me, because the freedom I'll be getting is worth much more to me.
mechavolt said @ 2:22am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:5 Good]
Subscribed. My 2 cents.

I'm choosing to trust steele with my money largely because of how vocal and open he has been about all of this. While other people offered free hosting and such, steele is the one who brought back the site. While other people criticized the daunting task of updating the code, steele actually went about working on it. While other people forecast the death of this site, steele voiced his desire to keep us alive.

I've been here since...2002, I think? I too remember the days when we could Sensibly Shaft a website. And while the site isn't as highly trafficked as it once was, the community is smaller, and some of the old guard have disappeared to who knows where, there has always been a continuous core of activity and discussion that has never stopped. This is a community, and I'm willing to support someone who is going to do something to keep it alive.
steele said @ 3:36am GMT on 28th Feb
Thank you :)
jsabin69 said @ 5:50am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Insightful]
Ah yes, I remember us crashing sites whenever we linked them...and the days went by and slowly it stopped happening...
Navier-Strokes said @ 8:55pm GMT on 1st Mar
So it goes ...
Naruki said @ 2:51am GMT on 28th Feb
Sadly the one thing I can contribute is the one thing he doesn't want: extra chefs in the coding kitchen.
steele said @ 4:20am GMT on 28th Feb
Comment and post, works for me :)
Naruki said @ 12:16am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:-1 Troll]
Well... I like to reply and/or mod (any order) without reposting the page and losing my place. That is why my script does just that. Even if the constant page reloading is okay for the server, it's not fine for individuals.
steele said @ 1:06am GMT on 1st Mar
relax, ajax will be coming ;)
blacksun said @ 2:53am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:4 Good]
So, I've had this idea for years now and now seems like a good time to air it out. Basically I think it would be cool to add 2 more posting categories, "videos" and "images". I think that sometime, and especially in the last year or so on SE (the "old" SE?) posting rate has slowed down due to posts becoming too much of a "big deal". Steele addressed part of the reason for that, but another part is that, sometimes good posts are just a video or single image, but traditionally, those don't go over so well.

The two new categories would show up on the site to the right side there there's all that blank space, in two new columns. The videos might just embed as is, and you can use the built in fullscreen controls to make them bigger. The images could pop up in to a lightbox for viewing larger. Both could act as regular posts, vote-able and comment-able. And, of course, Pron videos and pics allowed if tagged NSFW.

I feel this could breathe some new life back in to SE both by promoting more posts, and by creating more viewership and interaction because there ARE more posts, and things to digest. Perhaps the main regular posting section could be beefed up with more editorial options, to offset the junkfood aspect of the pics and vids.

I made a quick mockup, seen here:
mechavolt said @ 3:34am GMT on 28th Feb
People are doing this in the comments anyway, and this could make the front page a bit more active. I like the idea.
steele said @ 3:35am GMT on 28th Feb
I was thinking of using a setup like faceook where it shows the thumb and then once clicked it expands into the embedded video. I think your setup could work with the future home2 page. Or maybe even have it so the extra side is expandable/optional.
pleaides said @ 6:15am GMT on 28th Feb
I must say up front that I know nothing about coding at all, but this sounds to me like an excellent idea.

I'd like to add that when I last updated utorrent it had some small and unobtrusive ads on it, and I wouldn't be averse to seeing something like that here. My thinking is that Steele has stuck his neck out and done the hard work, and I'd be delighted to hear that, a year from now, he had a new tent, or perhaps even a camper van. Fucker deserves it :)
steele said @ 10:54am GMT on 28th Feb
I really want a Chinook. One day :D
fishhat said @ 1:44am GMT on 1st Mar
Chinooks are awesome, and so are you.

Me, I'm saving up for a small diesel school bus.
steele said @ 3:12pm GMT on 1st Mar
Thank you! :) I thought about a short bus, but I'm really going for low profile, incognito. I looked at RVs when I started this whole thing, but I just didn't want to be driving around something that huge. I like my pickup, but it's not a really comfortable environment for my cat. I wish I had seen the Chinook back then, but I might've waited to save up for it and it's best to be moving forward, at least. The downside is that popular tents really aren't meant to be used for long periods of time nowadays. They rip way too easily. So now I'm thinking of how to minimize my footprint in the back of my truck as much as possible so I can sleep in back and set up a kind of netting around the opening of the bed. Less camping and more sneak into the National Forest campgrounds after the rangers have gone home and then be up and out at a nice spot on a lake shore or something before they come back. :)
HoZay said @ 5:41pm GMT on 1st Mar
Also, tents are less good in bear country.
steele said @ 8:50pm GMT on 1st Mar
So far I've only had to deal with black bears and I'm almost positive I could take one ;)
blacksun said @ 3:01am GMT on 1st Mar
My buddy has one. That's a rare breed.
steele said @ 3:04pm GMT on 1st Mar
Hard to find, I scour craigslist like crazy. Like a kid tearing through the toys R Us christmas catalog looking at stuff he can't afford :D
snaguber said @ 4:08pm GMT on 28th Feb
this is awesome. and as an old european I don't use this term every 5 words.
azazel said @ 4:16pm GMT on 28th Feb
I don't know how I feel about porn videos though, but youtube videos I wouldn't have a major problem with. As long as it doesn't get to the point where there are so many videos embedded that the browser crashes.
steele said @ 4:26pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2 Informative]
2257 means no porn videos. I've been doing some research and it looks like the secondary producer section that applied to sites like us and got struck down as unconstitutional was rewritten under a different label and put back into the law and is currently going through another legal battle. So, for the time being 2257 rules apply. Later today I've gotta go clean up De's post and a few of the others floating around. Basically if you touch a pornographic image on the internet in any way that isn't as a consumer you fall under 2257 and have to have identification of the actors/models or risk prison. 'Merica!
lilmookieesquire said @ 8:31pm GMT on 28th Feb
Would it be worth working with someone outside of America to host the server etc?
steele said @ 8:46pm GMT on 28th Feb
If we can get through a year like this I'll look into finding a shadow offshore cabal to "take over" the reins.

BUT even that won't actually solve the problem. When I say "touch" I mean TOUCH. Even the people posting to the site become liable for the images posted. So right now, any americans that have posted explicit content are just as liable for being able to produce identification for the models as I am. Again, 'Merica! Fuck... WHAT?
blacksun said @ 3:02am GMT on 1st Mar
I don't get it. How do all the tube sites get away with it? They surely can't have records.
steele said @ 3:03pm GMT on 1st Mar
Whether they do or not, if you go to most of the american tube sites you will find a 2257 compliance notice at the bottom. Most of the "amateur" videos uploaded nowadays are uploaded by legit porn companies that use tube sites as cheap advertising. The real amateur stuff probably all have to certify that they have the info that takes the tube site off the hook. But as soon as you take that video and copy it to another site you have to have either that proof that the owners have the info or the id's themselves. It's crazy shit. It's unconstitutional too, but that's how we do things.
devilsad said @ 5:51pm GMT on 28th Feb
I like this idea but with one caveat; not everyone has a 25" monitor at 4k resolution, so for many of us there isn't that much empty space on the right side. One column of pics/videos would be more balanced, and have the extra benefit of moving more quickly. By moving more quickly I mean that if you refresh the page after an hour the new content will take up proportionally more of the top of the page, making it seem like there is more being posted.
Dr.Faustus said @ 3:19am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Interesting]
For whatever this may be worth,

If you decide to work with the existing code base - fix the security holes, bugs, etc. BEFORE you add any features.

If you decide to start over, good luck.

Elementary systems functions
1. A complex system cannot be "made" to work. It either works or it doesn't.
2. A simple system, designed from scratch, sometimes works.
3. Some complex systems actually work.
4. A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
5. A complex system designed from scratch never works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over, beginning with a working simple system.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemantics
steele said @ 4:06am GMT on 28th Feb
Thanks :)
Dr.Faustus said @ 4:32am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2]
But, I should have typed this first.

Thanks for recreating this odd little community. I may post only rarely, but I've been lurking and laughing here since aught two. I'm pleased as punch to see this up and running in one form or another.

Gracias,
Dr.F.
steele said @ 4:53am GMT on 28th Feb
De nada. Enjoy :)
sanepride said @ 4:05am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
First of all, many thanks for the work you've done here, and continue to do.
A couple of thoughts:
Why not the option of one-time donations, in addition to subscriptions?
Also, and I know this may be controversial, how about some type of fairly non-obtrusive advertising?
Speaking for those of us for whom funds are tight, and hope to contribute/subscribe in the near future, I would hope that we don't end up with a site where those who don't/can't offer enumeration in any way become 'second class citizens'.
steele said @ 4:19am GMT on 28th Feb
You're welcome :) One time donations will be an option down the line, but for right now i'm trying to keep things as simple as possible.
Advertising is tricky because of the adult nature of the site. Personally I'd rather use the space to let the users advertise their projects than get a few cents here and there.
If you feel like it's becoming like that let me know. That's the last thing I want to happen. That's why much of the things I've planned are for the overall site. Especially the xp/ level system, my imagination is running wild with algorithms for it :)
buzhidao said @ 11:41pm GMT on 28th Feb
oh pleasepleaseplease no ads
bltrocker said @ 8:54pm GMT on 28th Feb
This. I don't care about a letter next to my name, so I'd really like an option for one-time donations. That way, I can contribute whenever I have a spare $20 in the bank. That, or I would also accept atter cob subsidizing like 20 people since he's Mr. Pennybags.
blacksun said @ 4:54am GMT on 28th Feb
Oh, one other thing before I forget. Didn't someone register sensibleerection.net? Any opinion on using that domain? I don't care really either way. sensibleendowment has a ring to it also.
steele said @ 4:58am GMT on 28th Feb
Someone had bought it and let it lapse. But, there was a pretty decent number of requests for a worksafe domain name.

Bedtime, night. can't wait to see what this thread looks like in the morning ;)
cdwilli1 said @ 7:26pm GMT on 28th Feb
Can we get (given or $20 or something) the old SE domain? It does not expire for a while but it would be nice to have back?
HoZay said @ 7:35pm GMT on 28th Feb
St_Marck seems to think it's worth a lot of dollars.
lilmookieesquire said @ 8:42pm GMT on 28th Feb
I bet he's already sold it to a pharmaceutical hawking website for a six pack and a handjob.
cb361 said @ 10:11pm GMT on 28th Feb
I would have given him an eight pack and a blow job.
cdwilli1 said @ 9:14pm GMT on 28th Feb
Wow. Srsly? Wow.
kylemcbitch said @ 9:31pm GMT on 28th Feb
The figure he was asking for, last I heard was an asinine 5 figures for a website used by less than 500 people.
steele said @ 9:38pm GMT on 28th Feb
I would like to change my asking number ;)
sanepride said @ 10:00pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Funny]
New theory about the demise of SE:
St. Marck tried to pay his hosting fees in bitcoins.
mechanical contrivance said @ 4:56am GMT on 28th Feb
Can I pay for 6 months in advance instead of every month? I'd like it better that way.
cakkafracle said @ 5:40am GMT on 28th Feb
that is how she put it
pleaides said @ 6:08am GMT on 28th Feb
PHWOAR
steele said @ 11:34am GMT on 28th Feb
For now I'm going to say let's hold off on that. In the midst of everything that's going on I'm just trying to keep it as simple as possible with the few monthly options. If that keeps you from subscribing, I totally understand.
HoZay said @ 6:42am GMT on 28th Feb
I'm in. You need cash for the development phase, no problem.
We may need a different funding model later, even if it's finding a better job for Steele.
GordonGuano said @ 6:58am GMT on 28th Feb
There is a site devoted solely to racism that manages to support its hosting via user donations to the tune of $340/month. I'd like to think we could do better.
mechanical contrivance said @ 2:38pm GMT on 28th Feb
There are more racist people than SE members.
AssBastard said @ 2:45pm GMT on 28th Feb
Well, let's fix that, then.
AssBastard said @ 2:45pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Funny]
Time to go kill some racists! WHO'S WITH ME?!
milkman666 said @ 2:59pm GMT on 28th Feb
Membership drives historically don't involve the same strategies that the native amerians employed to hunt the buffalo.
AssBastard said @ 3:02pm GMT on 28th Feb
What can I say? I'm a revolutionary.
AssBastard said @ 3:02pm GMT on 28th Feb
*cocks rifle*
AssBastard said @ 3:09pm GMT on 28th Feb
steele said @ 3:52pm GMT on 28th Feb
*rifles cock*
AssBastard said @ 4:54pm GMT on 28th Feb
Back, and to the left, please.
backSLIDER said @ 7:49am GMT on 1st Mar
Lets go play Jeopardy!
AssBastard said @ 8:00pm GMT on 1st Mar
Please, please tell me that's code.
Naruki said @ 8:34pm GMT on 1st Mar
It is, but you're still not gonna like it. It's code for "let's play wheel of fortune".
AssBastard said @ 8:38pm GMT on 1st Mar
And that's code for "let's play Jeopardy," right?
cb361 said @ 10:54am GMT on 1st Mar
What? I thought SE was a racist website.

Faps not Blacks!
AssBastard said @ 7:19am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Insightful]
I'm happy to have a little P next to my name, and I plan on keeping the subscription going until many, many years from now, should all go well.

I know the body of the post is a lot to read, but the TL;DR boils down to this: Money isn't for hosting costs, it's to pay Steele so he can afford to work on SE2 as a part-time job. He lives out of his car with a tent and a cat, making modest money with mechanical turk, wandering the countryside like David Carradine, always looking for a new place to auto-erotically asphyxiate himself relax.

If you haven't already, please consider donating at least $5/month, because the amenities of the new SE2 will be worth supporting Steele.
snagUber said @ 4:12pm GMT on 28th Feb
speaking about this I'm not sure how easy it is to change (up or down) the monthly donation ... ? I subscribed for $5 but may consider more when my financial situation will be stable.
Arrowhen said @ 6:36pm GMT on 28th Feb
Heh, I actually picked gold instead of platinum by mistake, so I'll want to be changing that as soon as there's a system in place.
steele said @ 7:30pm GMT on 28th Feb
It's probably best for me to refund you now and have you do it again then. It's all done through paypal so even when I automate it a bit the canceling things will still have to be done through paypal manually. Let me know if you want me to refund it :)
Arrowhen said @ 7:51pm GMT on 28th Feb
Yeah, if you don't mind, go ahead and refund it and I'll resub at the proper level when I get home tonight. Sorry for the trouble!
steele said @ 8:04pm GMT on 28th Feb
done.
steele said @ 7:31pm GMT on 28th Feb
Cancel and start anew, I believe. i'll look more into it to see what the options are, but I think that's it.
seneschal said @ 8:27am GMT on 28th Feb
Having mods that are only available at the gold and platinum level may make it impossible for those mods to be attributed to a post.

Also, I think Platinum needs something beyond the ability to grant silvers... I want the prestige of platinum, but I don't want to have to think about who to distribute my silver to.
steele said @ 11:03am GMT on 28th Feb
It will, it's more for the novelty of having your own mod. I think the extra group mods will work out well because in order to have them make a difference it'll require someone pushing the subscribers to get involved and I think that could be fun/funny :)

I really am not a fan of the platinum. Gifting is cool, but the only reason for the platinum is that some people really, really, really wanted to give more than ten so that's what I came up with. If you're looking at it for prestige I don't know that it will ever really have what you're looking for. The marks by the name may even end up all being the same at some point in the future so if it's prestige, again, maybe not.
King Of The Hill said @ 1:25am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Good]
We all understand what you are trying to do. I think the platinum level is really probably not going to be popular or have anyone subscribe for long. Hence my up front donation to you directly on paypal outside the bounds of the subscriptions you set up. I'll be adding the subscription once more money is officially in my paypal and probably give you a direct bump now and then.

I think you should have $1 subscriptions... Might get more people on board that way though it may prevent some from going with the $5 subscription. Not sure what the right science is there.

Either way, I think you need to allow one time donations for those that have commitment issues or would like to donate more than $20 at a pop. While over the years, I have felt that many of the SEers were living paycheck to paycheck, there were plenty that made a decent living and could afford to offer you a bit more windfall.

I have absolutely ZERO problem with you making a bit of money from the site. After all, wasn't that the aim of Marck to begin with when he bought it from Matt? *And if we can actually grow the community again - sell some ad space for fuck's sake.

I think you need to preserve the simplicity of SE while adding some features and securing the code... I think everyone agrees the bare bones nature of SE was what MADE SE what it was.
AssBastard said @ 2:06pm GMT on 1st Mar
The $1 subscriptions are a problem because PayPal eats pretty much all of that in fees.
conception said @ 12:26am GMT on 5th Mar
I mentioned elsewhere, but this is actually where crypto-currencies do a great job.
steele said @ 2:59pm GMT on 1st Mar
I totally appreciate that, thank you again. As Assy said the $1 dollar might as well be chucking money at paypal. And yes and there will be an option for one time donations, but here in the beginning I'd like make sure I don't starve. As you can see, I'm going ahead with this anyway even though we're not at the goal. We are getting there. 12 more golds or equivalent to hit our goal :)

I'll do my best to keep the spirit of Se alive in any changes I make. promise ;)
spleen23 said @ 9:03am GMT on 3rd Mar
For a help keep the site alive subscription fee of 1 dollar a month, which is all I could force myself to cough up, to be able to see the posts, comment and basic moderates I would gladly mail a check for the year.

No pay pal fee, just need a mailing address.
moriati said @ 8:35am GMT on 28th Feb
Quick question - at the subscription link, should you use the same email address linked to your account?
steele said @ 10:57am GMT on 28th Feb
Yes, please.
gendo666 said @ 11:48am GMT on 28th Feb
what if you..I dunno .. say logged on using your old SE log on and it's NOT associated with paypal in any way shape or form?
- just hypothetically
AssBastard said @ 11:55am GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Funny]
Then you've disappointed everyone you've ever come into contact with.

Especially me.
steele said @ 12:05pm GMT on 28th Feb
there's a box for you to put in the email to your SE account email. your paypal account doesn't have to be the same as the se email. the se email I ask for is for me to keep track, no paypal.

does this make sense? I may be confusing myself.
azazel said @ 12:58pm GMT on 28th Feb
I can't even remember which email address I used to sign up here! I never received my confirmation email, after all.
steele said @ 12:59pm GMT on 28th Feb
reply to this comment. look up ;)
azazel said @ 4:14pm GMT on 28th Feb
D'oh.
faustsloki said @ 12:12pm GMT on 28th Feb
Thanks for everything so far steele. Its great work!

I would like to see a lump some payment somewhere in between the value of silver and gold, that would be good for a year. $75 maybe?
steele said @ 12:18pm GMT on 28th Feb
You're welcome!

Again, for right now, I'm just trying to keep everything simple as possible. Perhaps in the future once everything gets going. People are also bugging me for micropayment type mayhem so that's something to think about as well :)
Tirade said @ 3:13pm GMT on 28th Feb
Has anybody looked into patreon as an easy way of doing recurring payments? I'm seeing a lot of artsy people in the internet, mostly just content creator types, using it. Have no clue if it's any good.
steele said @ 3:51pm GMT on 28th Feb
I looked it over real quick when this idea first popped up but I didn't think it would work for something like this. I may give it a shot on my personal blog once I start really pumping content out on it though.
seneschal said @ 4:26pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2]
One thing about running a website for intelligent and opinionated people, is that you will get all sorts of opinions.... I admire how you are handling everything so far.
steele said @ 4:28pm GMT on 28th Feb
Thank you. I think I may have grown in my time away ;)
taeyn said @ 4:46pm GMT on 28th Feb
Thanks for taking this over.

I would personally subscribe if there were more (or less) subscription options.
$10/mo is a little steep (for me) for a website membership, but $120 lump-sum for a year isn't.
(i know, i know)
It might be worth looking at something like $2/mo to get more total people subscribed, and larger lump-sum payments for the whole year for people who want to help, now. Sorta like NPR!
taeyn said @ 4:51pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Good]
Ah screw it - i subscribed...

but i still thing you're going to want to look at more options. The more you can cater to individuals monetary situations, the more likely they are to help.

Again, thanks from someone who has mostly lurked since the very beginning of the original SE. It's great to see
steele said @ 7:33pm GMT on 28th Feb
Thank you and I will in the future once things have settled. There is a lot of push for little microtransaction fun stuff. So I'll do my best to play with that once the base site is updated. Thanks again! :)
cb361 said @ 6:22pm GMT on 28th Feb
Being vulgar and Talking Money, I think that the $500 per month steele is aiming for is a pretty reasonable amount for the community to contribute to keeping SE ticking over. I earn a close-to-average salary, and after deducting hosting expenses, that amount equates to three or four working days income for me. I reckon three or four days per month average salary isn't an unreasonable amount to pay somebody to maintain things.

It's a slightly off conclusion to come to, because I (and some other members with conventional jobs) would happily manage SE as a hobby, but with steele's described lifestyle, it becomes more like a kickstarter. Helping somebody, do stuff we would like to have done. I wouldn't pay a commercial company $10 a month for SE because that would be grossly overpriced. But to keep SE running, and help somebody spend more time doing voluntary work, well, that's a bargain.

Or maybe I'm just rationalising stuff I've already decided. Let me now what you think.
steele said @ 7:40pm GMT on 28th Feb
You're probably rationalizing ;)

I'm biased, but like I said, even if I only spend two hours a day on basic admin stuff I'm still only looking at less than $9 an hour. I don't think that's much and it basically solves the problem that was killing (and killed) the last site. And who knows maybe i'll finally get out and about far enough to start meeting SE'ers outside Florida :) I'll make it a regular feature, A Day with Steele and His Pussy! :D
HoZay said @ 7:55pm GMT on 28th Feb
It's only some long-time users who will even consider a sub. To new users, that will seem ridiculous.
steele said @ 8:50pm GMT on 28th Feb
I don't doubt that for a second :)
Arrowhen said @ 8:52pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2 Insightful]
Honestly I doubt we'll even get that many new users. I wouldn't complain if we did, but really, what does SE have to offer new users that Facebook, Reddit, and all those "8 INCREDIBLE REASONS YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES WHEN YOU READ THIS AMAZING STORY!" sites don't already give them? The real attraction here is the community, and I think the number of people who are likely to stumble across SE, find the community to their liking, and decide to become a part of it just isn't going to be that high.

I think at this point we're pretty much a nature preserve for internet dinosaurs. I don't think that's a bad thing, but it's not 2002 anymore and I don't think we should pretend it ever can be again.
steele said @ 10:28pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:1 Underrated]
The likelihood of ever getting back to those levels of 2002 is pretty low, but I think the ability to be a closeknit community is a major selling point for what happens to be our niche. which is generally, well spoken, reasonably intelligent, creative perverts. :)
HoZay said @ 9:03pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Good]
tag line: a nature preserve for internet dinosaurs
devilsad said @ 6:27pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:2 Insightful]
I like your drive and enthusiasm and the ideas you have to update the site so it's a bit less ... turn of the century. I would normally be skeptical these days of anyone who thinks they can run a site purely from subscriptions, but you do have a dedicated community already which is at least half the battle of being able to support a site. I know I would subscribe if I didn't live in a low-wage country and $10/mo wasn't double my entire gaming budget.

It looks like you want to be a one-man band doing all the coding and maybe paying for some people to do some of the graphics. While that's admirable (and understandable) I think you're making it a little bit too much "your baby", whereas the previous SE had more of a flavor of it being everyone's site, because the boss had gone out for lunch and never came back. At least you could consider the possibility of making it open source on github or somewhere and letting the programmers among us submit fixes and improvements.

If having others add things to your code is too much to bear, I would highly recommend you find someone to do a security audit every now and then. The old SE had so many holes you could drive a malware site through them, it was only the relative obscurity and kind-heartedness of the community that kept it from being a total disaster. If you're looking to expand the user base then you WILL get jerks who will find and exploit holes in the software to fuck either you or the site users in the ass. As a fortunate coincidence I do have a background in IT security, and I would waive my usual fee.. ;-)

Anyway thanks for bringing back the zombie corpse of SE and reanimating it with the lifeforce of its previous users. I wish you well in your Frankensteinian efforts to replace the rotten parts with new flesh, so to speak. Good luck, we're all counting on you.
seneschal said @ 7:24pm GMT on 28th Feb [Score:3 Insightful]
I made an offer to St Marck to buy SE about a year ago. I never received a response, but I wanted to share some of my thoughts at the time in reply to your comment. My offer was made because I didn't want to see the site decline further due to neglect, but I knew I had several problems to overcome.

One problem was the cost of funding the purchase and administration (the offer was low, but nonetheless), and there would also be costs associated with fixing the code, and making improvements unless volunteers could be organized.

In terms of funding - I knew that some members of the SE community were dedicated enough to help with that, and I considered that advertising revenue might be very low, but offering a subscription to avoid advertising might work.

But I also knew that lots of advertising or any efforts which were transparently a means to make a cash grab would be criticized and rejected by most members. There are some who would see any profit as too much profit.

Another problem was the issue of how to make changes, updates and improvements without alienating people who might not want changes, or may disagree with the improvements made, or might want different additions.There are uncontroversial ideas (ability to reset or change passwords and email address, fixing the post clock etc) and some other ideas that are well established in popular scripts. Other ideas (polls, chat rooms, the ability to use a basic text editor for comments and posts, easier thumb creation for posts etc) would probably be uncontroversial. I also had some ideas for more dramatic updates and ways to evolve the site to become relevant again.

But I feared that change would never come if the entire membership acted as the approval committee, and if a single person made the decisions, they would receive aggravation and criticism in large doses, regardless of the practicality of the changes. Even on the coding side: having a team of volunteer coders to fix the problems could result in confusion, conflict, inconsistencies, security holes and or delays, but I have no such skills and no time for such things, and paying a company to redevelop the site was beyond any optimistic funding goals.

As an example of a controversy I expected - the ability to embed html in posts and comments is appreciated by some members, but allows for all kinds of exploits. Removing that capability, limiting it or allowing it unfettered isn't a decision about which I expected consensus from the community.

Finally there was the concern about security and liability. Any security holes would potentially be a huge headache, and beyond my ability to adequately address, quickly or otherwise. Then there was the question of personal liability in the event that someone might post legally objectionable content, subject the site to copyright disputes, or other legal tangles.

I had not made a final decision about how I was going to address these issues if my offer was accepted, but I only came up with two solutions.

My least favored solution was to remake the website with myself as the sole final arbiter of what changes to implement, run the site for profit, to off-set my time, the inevitable expenses, and the associated risks. The only way to make that work would have been to make the site so cool, that it overcomes objections by virtue of retaining all of the good stuff that made SE an enduring community, while adding more new cools stuff that would encourage new membership and relevance. My main concern about this is that I would spend a bunch of time and money, and possibly receive plenty of hostility in kind. My lack of extra time and coding ability were huge hurdles.

My more favored solution was the idea of actually creating a non-profit organization with about a dozen directors who would act as trustees and basically decide on major changes once the membership had expressed preferences through polling. The directors would be comprised of members, some with coding expertise, some prolific and respected posters, and generally all people that the membership would recognize as being worthy. Those directors would have admin privileges to remove legally objectionable content and hopefully would take care of organizing a coding committee. I was going to loan the society initial startup and operating costs without interest, and hopefully ad revenue, subscriptions and donations would be sufficient to cover operating costs, repay the loan and carry forward with making improvements.

So, I think it's great that you are offering to help, and I agree that steele has some decisions to make about how much help to accept. I put these thoughts here in case there is anything in my nascent ideas that might be helpful.
steele said @ 7:52pm GMT on 28th Feb
I will keep your offer in mind, thank you. I too have a bit of a security background ;)

Ultimately, yes for now it will be my baby. As I've said before we've tried the group effort model and not a whole lot got done. I work in spurts but I also have a habit of getting a shitload accomplished in those little spurts and that's what I'm looking to take advantage of. Perhaps once I've patched all the holes and have gotten things moving I'll put a call out for programmers and we can talk about building a fresh start for the backend. But for now, it's going to be me and redbull in a mad dash for the finish :)
devilsad said @ 12:05pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Funny]
Well you're certainly in the right place if you need to have some little spurts :-) That is also how I work, more than 2-3 hours at once and I'm burned out and need to put it aside for a day or two. Gotta scratch that itch good but not end up with red marks, if you know what I mean.
lilmookieesquire said @ 8:32pm GMT on 28th Feb
You're not beeno by any chance are you?
seneschal said @ 6:36pm GMT on 28th Feb
I have subscribed and I wanted to express my appreciation again for your initiative, efforts, patience, transparency and willingness to explain and receive input.
steele said @ 7:34pm GMT on 28th Feb
Thank you and you're welcome :)
krupa said @ 8:22pm GMT on 28th Feb
Hey, I was thinking about using SE-code for our research, to discuss articles and gather comments over the intranet.

The format is still the best I can think of.

Would someone be kind enough to offer the code for grabs? I missed it on the original site. :-/
steele said @ 8:48pm GMT on 28th Feb
I can see what I can do about scrounging up an untouched copy of what I'm using BUT I would highly recommend not doing that. This code really is a nightmare. PM me an email if you're still interested.
krupa said @ 9:06pm GMT on 28th Feb
Hi,

that would be super-awesome! Thanks! PM sent. :)

The thing is, we don't need super secure or safe, we need something that works. We'll try it on the "secure" intranet. It would be great for discussing papers and drafts.
krupa said @ 9:43pm GMT on 28th Feb
And I really understand your concerns. But SE -user interface is simply unbeatably good.

It is fast to use, it is simple, and it allows discussions on links. We can easily hook up a file server to support linking files, or just use dropbox etc.

It allows fast discussions, that's basically the main point. And we can e.g. implement voting on what is the next research topic etc.

Should be fun. =)
steele said @ 9:59pm GMT on 28th Feb
I think you're underestimating how bad this code is. But still, good luck :)
seneschal said @ 11:11pm GMT on 28th Feb
The code may be bad, but the interface has some unique advantages.
steele said @ 11:17pm GMT on 28th Feb
true, I just don't know that it would be worthusing if I wasn't supporting a community already entrenched in it. ;)
fishhat said @ 2:08am GMT on 1st Mar
I have a copy of the sev2 as hosted on code.google.com once upon a time (can't find it now.)
PM me and I will send you a copy or seed a torrent or whatever. In the long term I may make a git site for it or stick it on GitHub.

I really really hope that anyone doing any significant work on this code is using git or at least some form of VCS. Also, publicize it! Merging patches is easier than writing code.
fishhat said @ 2:18am GMT on 1st Mar
^^ The above was meant to be a reply to krupa. I don't know what happened with that.

Anyway, here's the link I was talking about: http://code.google.com/p/se-v2/

Apparently you can't search google-code from duckduckgo. I blame google. Fuck you, google!

To reiterate, I am sure that there are many of us who, regardless of whether we can contribute money, can contribute time and skill. If steele has a public repository (or uses the one linked above, though I don't recommend it because fuck google) then a lot of others can do a lot of work for him.

krupa said @ 7:06pm GMT on 1st Mar
Wonderful!

I already got the code from steele, but I'll take a look at that too.


It's just that I've been thinking about SE-format to be rather good for managing research and discussing papers. It works wonderfully well for other stuff, so why not try it with this context?

Pros:
-super-fast to use
-clear and simple format
-simple user management
-uses mysql -> might be possible to integrate to papers or mendeley (not necessary)
-abstract to extended, then comments or quotes of the paper to the text, as well as refs to our papers that might use the paper

Cons:
-someone has to work a bit with the code for it to be well-adapted
-maintaining?
-I've been told that it is not very secure =)
-links -> might not be enough
-searching might need to be improved

Anyway, if someones interest has been piqued, I'd be happy to hear about it.
Naruki said @ 8:38pm GMT on 1st Mar
It sounds like you are just interested in the L&F. In which case you should get something like Drupal and modify the styles to suit your taste.

It does all that other stuff for you, is actively developed, and has a million people out there you can ask questions from.
krupa said @ 9:29pm GMT on 1st Mar
Ugh, drupal sucks. Both that and wordpress are way too sucky and heavy for what the intended use would be.

Think about pen and paper-level of ease of use. WP and drupal are definitely not that.

But I still appreciate the tip. :)
steele said @ 8:46pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Insightful]
Ah, I hadn't seen that link in a while. That happens to be ONE of the examples of group effort not getting anywhere that I've been talking about.
graham said @ 12:01am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:4]
I miss the .ero

RANCH


this had better work
Leezurd said @ 6:18am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Funny]
...Oh, it will...

Just like ---> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Leezurd/ImGoinToHell.jpg
Dantron said @ 5:32am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:5 Good]
Dear Steele,
Once i get some cash it will be yours. I have been lurking this community of dark and depraved soles since 2002 and would not have become the twisted man child i am today. I am glad you stepped up to jerk off the proverbial horse
Arrowhen said @ 8:30am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:2 Good]
You used to be a lurker. Here at the new site that's been up for a week, you're averaging 1 comment a week. That wasn't hard, was it? Keep it up!
backSLIDER said @ 7:55am GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Good]
I'm in. But I would like the option of paying for a year all at once... my work is seasonal and my wife's forgiveness can be mercurial. But you know whatever. Not a demand just an idea.
Arrowhen said @ 8:13am GMT on 1st Mar
Something you could do is buy a prepaid debit card, load it up with whatever subscription level you want x12, and use that as your payment method. It'll cost you an extra $5 or whatever for the card, but if you find paying yearly more convenient, it's an option to consider.
midden said @ 5:16pm GMT on 1st Mar
I second this. My income is irregular. I'd much rather drop $100 a year and be done with it. If the year runs out and I have to just be a reader for a few weeks or a month, that's ok; I'll have constant reminders to re-up every time I log on and can't respond. There's also the issue about security. If the transaction happens every month, it seems like there are eleven more opportunities for sensitive data to get nabbed, although I know next to nothing about the technical side of it.

Yearly payments also have the option of being more flexible in the amount the user wants to pay. It could be threshold based. For instance, I can justify $100 a year to be a contributing member of this community, but I'm only moderately active. $120 is pushing it a bit. But I'd be happy to pay $100 and be a Silver member. The Silver threshold is $60, so would get an extra $40 from me you otherwise wouldn't, and I'd be happy to pay it. This system does assume that users actually may want to contribute more than the minimum for a level, but based on what I have seen here over the last ten years, it seems likely.

It also occurs to me that subscription level should not be public unless the individual chooses to make it so. It gets too close to financially linked status in a community that seems opposed to that idea. It may very well be that the level can be inferred from the individuals actions, but it's not the kind of thing that should be automatically in a user's profile or that tags their posts or comments.

Thanks again for taking the initiative to keep this community alive.
Bodnoirbabe said @ 11:08am GMT on 1st Mar
Thanks again for bringing this back! I'll def pitch in some funds once one time donations are a-go.

I have zero idea about coding or security holes or anything else. Most of m concerns are about the cosmetic look of the place and I'm sure that's pretty low on your list of things to do.
lalanda said @ 2:56pm GMT on 1st Mar
Why is vikingbiochemist not here?
steele said @ 3:15pm GMT on 1st Mar
floating around. different name.
lalanda said @ 3:59pm GMT on 1st Mar
Oh good. This name change thing unsettles me. It's like everyone went into witness protection.
AssBastard said @ 4:07pm GMT on 1st Mar
I'm actually lalanda, but don't tell the person that signed up under that name.
lalanda said @ 6:36pm GMT on 1st Mar
It would have been fine, I so would have been balzac if I didn't feel bad jacking his name.
seneschal said @ 11:04pm GMT on 2nd Mar
I considered penisinmouth, because that's where I keep my pen most of the time. I also considered _-_, brat#4 and largemookieknight.
arrowhen said @ 11:29pm GMT on 2nd Mar
a_fiend
spazm said @ 1:10am GMT on 4th Mar
pmar13
robotroadkill said @ 4:37am GMT on 4th Mar
Chop-Logik
arrowhen said @ 6:00am GMT on 4th Mar
rabid_doge
arrowhen said @ 6:01am GMT on 4th Mar
Actually, now I don't remember if he had an underscore or not.
AssBastard said @ 4:03pm GMT on 1st Mar
BTW, favorite new feature right now is PM notifications showing up on the top of every page instead of just the home page. Nice work, Steele!
snagUber said @ 11:51pm GMT on 1st Mar
... nobody PM's me :(
C18H27NO3 said @ 5:09pm GMT on 1st Mar
First of all, thanks to steele for creating this SE zombie. Secondly, I'm a lurker and will probably remain one. I registered only to post some comments and suggestions.

Part of the allure of SE was that it was democratically driven. Everyone was the same with the exception of those that knew code and knew how to bypass community "rules." That is, sock puppets, bypassing the mod system, and mayhem. This, we can all agree, isn't something anybody wants with a new site.

However, creating membership/subscription levels with features that aren't available to the rest is elitist and runs contrary to what made SE great - even if it's as simple as an icon. It creates power users or those that will dominate based on the size of their wallet. I do share your ideas about support and the new features. At the same time, I liked the fact that if you become a dick over time, you lose your standing until you stop being a dick. And being a dick doesn't mean having a differing opinion. I can also say that it's a slippery slope to add a "board" that is a "moderating board" because then the opinions of the "board" would hold more weight than everybody else. I think we can agree that even though a democracy is "everybody has an equal voice," it isn't always fair or right. Yes, I know I contradict myself, but the problem with the old SE is that the "rules" were never enforced. Attacking particular users, pissing matches, stalking, sock puppets, etc. Maybe that board is an admin board, that only fixes tech issues or suggestions.

As much as I appreciate your honesty steele (since you've freely admitted that you want this to be a part time job), making SE a for profit website also runs contrary to the fundamental philosophy of the site. Free for all, not to be manipulated by money. It's about ideas and points of view, not a revenue stream. I know, I know, it's socialist, and maybe I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt. It's just my knee jerk reaction. I don't really know or can relate to your situation, but it does seem to be your choice. It appears at first to be opportunist to set up SE as a money making venture to give you stability for your long term goals and support your lifestyle. I'm sorry for being honest, and don't mean to disrespect you. I do respect the fact that it takes time and energy to maintain the site, and you deserve to be compensated for it at market rates. You most definitely shouldn't be left abandoned and holding the bill. I also vote no, no, no, no to advertising, but yes to promoting your website, product etc. (Will this allow for spam bots?)

Anyway, I have a suggestion. Why not use the PBS business model? Have a pledge week quarterly? You raise enough money to run the site (as you said : $500/ month) and use what's leftover for "gifts" or perks for those that give more than your minimum amount. That is, t-shirts, credit, gift cards, etc. Maybe there is a profit sharing system and you get a share without actually donating? I'm sure there will be volunteers to help you administer this, and if you can't either raise the money monthly or acquire help then the site goes into temporary blackout. That gives you some kind of safety net. I know it might be a slight risk, but in previous discussions it has been made known that there are many out there that would gladly help financially or assist in maintaining the site if you can't connect, have the time, or whatever. Hell, didn't SE raise money for someone with a brain tumor?

Also, setting out at the beginning to create a "constitution" so to speak, can also address the "rules of use" so that everybody can agree on what is acceptable and what is not instead of an unwritten rule book that everyone or anyone can interpret in their own way.

My two cents. Sorry for the long post, apologies if I've offended, and thanks for taking the time.

Good luck.
cakkafracle said @ 5:58pm GMT on 1st Mar
this is pretty much what I was going to say,but less bastardy
HoZay said @ 6:05pm GMT on 1st Mar
I'm pretty sure nobody will be offended by your input.
I see nothing wrong with some advertising to support the site, if it can be found.
There was always advertising on the old site, though it was probably invisible to regular readers - it was not very eye-catching. Adultfriendfinder, porn sites, etc.
mechavolt said @ 7:26pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:5 Underrated]
Not to be dick or anything, but I don't agree that SE was a democracy. SE was an anarchy, a realm without leadership in which all citizens were free to do whatever. That it survived as long as it does speaks wonders of the community, but we were crippled in regards to improving the site structure.
steele said @ 8:42pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Good]
Thanks for coming out of lurking to make this comment. I hope to see more comments from you in the future, maybe?

To start with, allow me to clarify a few things I think you may have misconstrued or may be misinformed about.

There's no special admin moderating board. the only thing I can think of that you're getting that from is the support section? This is just going to be an area where EVERYONE can report bugs, account problems, etc. It'll also have an area for feature requests and tracking that EVERYONE will have the chance to vote and comment on.

Also, as mechavolt pointed out, SE was very much not a democracy. It was an example of how anarchy can sometime come together to form tribes that occasionally get shit done. Also, also, Saint Marck claimed it made thousands of dollars a month and was unwilling to sell it for less than, the last number i heard, $30,000. Up until paypal cut SE off many years ago there were fundraising drives to cover the cost and time of matt and Marck. So I really don't think I'm going too far from the spirit here. Especially since I'm not really looking for profit, but for the freedom this would allow me.

As far as being opportunist, sure, but I don't think that's a bad thing. After all, it's what has gotten us here. What you may not know, however, is that I stopped being involved with SE almost two years ago. Why? Because no one was willing to seriously address or do anything about the fact that the SE community was being held hostage by an administrator that had pretty much abandoned it, and the site could up and die at any moment. The topic would come up, people would voice complaints, and then nothing would get done. My very last comment on the site was a polite goodbye and my concern that people weren't taking the issue seriously.

Then this most recent crashed happened and someone mentioned me on a comment on facebook in the SE group. I responded by telling them I really couldn't afford to do it because of my situation and that day got a number of messages from people that would be willing to kick in every month. I took it into consideration, spoke to some of the more senior users, wrote a plea to the community for them to consider, and within 24 hours had 12 people willing to contribute. And, I was averaging an additional 2 people per day as more people found my plea.

If you're curious about what I wrote you can read it here.

After we reached 20 people I was getting enough messages from people that they really wanted me to move forward and even though I hadn't hit my goal, I had enough faith in the community that once we got started I'd be close enough that, worst case scenario, I'd just have to skip lunch from time to time. And here we are at 80% funded as of this comment.

So, while your worries that having small benefits for subscribers is valid, I really think you're underestimating the community and myself. I assure you, if it does become an issue, I will do something about it. But right now these little perks are the best way I can come up with to show my thanks to those that are willing, not just get the site up, but to let me do it in a way that gives me the freedom I find so valuable.

A pbs style fundraiser is not out of the question but at this point I need to be able to know that my survival is covered and I would much rather do it in a way that I think could work long term rather than having to take the site hostage for temporary blackouts. To me that would be way too dickish and an absolute last resort. If it helps, think of subscribers I'm getting now as the foundation that holds this site up for future experimentation.

A constitution is a good idea and something I'll consider but I don't know that we really need more than maybe "Be excellent to each other." ;)

I hope this comment has helped to clarify some things and ease what issues may be bothering you. And there's absolutely no need to apologize for voicing your opinions. I hope you'll feel free to continue to do so in the future.

Thank you.
HoZay said @ 9:01pm GMT on 1st Mar [Score:1 Funny]
I hear "don't be evil" is available.
steele said @ 9:04pm GMT on 1st Mar
But do we really want to limit ourselves? ;)
C18H27NO3 said @ 6:48pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Thanks. Very informative. I still feel a little queasy about subscription perks though. I also must have confused what someone said about a "board" and how they could act as comment moderators - or someone could rename someone else as "douchesprinkle."

I also agree that it was an anarchy of sorts, but a democracy in the sense that each person had one vote(karma), and the majority voted and decided if a comment or post was worthy of acceptance or removed.
steele said @ 8:19pm GMT on 2nd Mar
You're welcome. Give it a shot. We'll see what happens. The idea of renaming someone "douchesprinkle" for the day is that a pretty large number of people have expressed interest in me coming up with a kind of microtransaction based pranking system for people to play with as a means of fundraising and keeping some excitement in the more secure site where javascript mayhem wont be possible. It's a similar model to what the somethingawful forums are using. Again, we'll see. The beauty of this community is that it's mostly made up of very open minded people who understand that a little experimentation done within the right context can be a very enlightening and fulfilling experience.

As far as your preference for anarchy based democracy in regards to moderation, let me assure you, that is not going to change. Everyone's vote is equal and that is going to stay that way.
maryyugo said @ 5:50pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Hi.

I'd like to contribute anonymously. I don't care about the perks. Mainly I'd rather not reveal my real email address or other ID. Is there some way to do that?
HoZay said @ 6:23pm GMT on 2nd Mar
I could be your courier :-)
cb361 said @ 8:36pm GMT on 2nd Mar
So long as nobody finds out he's really tamp, that should be fine.
steele said @ 8:05pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Hi, mary, thanks for your interest. I don't know. Right now I'm just using paypal and I don't know that there's a way to to hide who you are. Let's put a pin in that and I'll see what I can think of once we're moving forward a bit. Thanks again :)
maryyugo said @ 8:36pm GMT on 2nd Mar
I think some types of money orders allow anonymity of the purchaser. You may want to look into it -- if you're in the US anyway.
maryyugo said @ 8:37pm GMT on 2nd Mar
... and well, it's crude but there is always cash if you're willing to establish a PO Box somewhere reliable.
arrowhen said @ 8:56pm GMT on 2nd Mar [Score:1 Underrated]
I think you guys should agree on a neutral location to meet and exchange the cash in a rolled-up newspaper, while you're both wearing ridiculous disguises.
azazel said @ 9:16pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Pfff, meeting in real life like that is a mistake most make at least once. No, what you do is you hire a retrieval guy that meets up at a specific location and gets and/or delivers the goods, then you meet him elsewhere. That way you're not ever meeting the one you're paying off (or getting payments from).
steele said @ 9:31pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Sure, but then I got a steal a kid so no one suspects that I might laundering money... It just becomes this big hassle.
arrowhen said @ 9:34pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Yeah, but then you'd have to kill the delivery guy just to be on the safe side. More importantly, you wouldn't have an excuse to wear.a ridiculous disguise.
Wint said @ 9:38pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Yes, Mr. Kidd.
Kidd said @ 9:39pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Yes, Mr. Wint.
steele said @ 9:29pm GMT on 2nd Mar
If we get to the point of setting up an LLC for the site I'll think about that. Right now I'm just trying to get the foundation built as stable as possible :)
arrowhen said @ 9:42pm GMT on 2nd Mar
For what it's worth, I paid for my subscription with a pre-paid debit card attached to an unverified paypal account. I used my real name for those things (because, frankly, if anyone ever DID steal my identity, they'd probably end up begging me to take it back), but it seems like it would have been just as easy to use a fake one. I think as long as you didn't call yourself Anonymous Q. Freedom or something you'd be fine.
steele said @ 9:58pm GMT on 2nd Mar
huh. I learned something today. have to keep that in mind.
arrowhen said @ 8:51pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Most grocery stores, gas stations, etc. that sell money orders won't ask for ID unless it's over something like $2,000 (I forget the exact amount), at which point they're required by federal law to record that information.

They, can, however, be a complete bitch for the recipient to get cashed.
arrowhen said @ 8:37pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Out of curiosity, what would happen if someone subscribed using a different email address than the one they log on with?
HoZay said @ 8:49pm GMT on 2nd Mar
It still gets credited to your login - worked for me, anyway.
arrowhen said @ 8:54pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Hmm. Make a sock puppet account and subscribe with that instead of your real one?
steele said @ 9:27pm GMT on 2nd Mar
Then I email the paypal email to find out their username or cross reference the paypal email with my original contributor list to see if they just used a different email... As a couple of people did ::angry face:: ;)
seneschal said @ 11:20pm GMT on 2nd Mar
I hope this isn't getting annoying, but I'd like to express that what I'm really missing are the SE facial features which allowed you to comment and mod without marking all unread comments as read, as well as the arrow that allowed you to advance to the next unread message, and the hover-over which allowed you to see who had modded without opening the comment. I gather that you intend to incorporate those script elements.

In terms of low-priority longer-term things:

1) Anything that makes posting content less daunting might be a good idea. Might it be possible to have the system automatically resize images?

2) Fear of accidentally reposting will be reduced by a functional search which is already on your to-do list, but I do think that a chat room, sticky thread, or other area about posting - perhaps sorted chronologically despite mods - might be nice. A way for people to post ideas about posts that they think others might want to put together, a place to request specific porn posts, and a place to say "Hey, I remember some post about marrying a realdoll, but it's not coming up in search. Sound familiar to anyone else? Would that be a repost?". It would also be a way for new members in particular to ask if others think that a post idea might be worthy before sticking their neck out by posting it.
snagUber said @ 12:47am GMT on 3rd Mar
you love facial don't you ?

well.... me too. the thread collapsing, reorder, the hover text for mods, .... lotsa good stuff there. I noticed that the original SE does not fit well nowadays screen size (stays on the left) this is particularly anoying in long threads....
seneschal said @ 5:46am GMT on 3rd Mar
:D so cool of you.
steele said @ 1:33am GMT on 3rd Mar
I'll do what I can re facial features but it's gonna take some time.

1) Possibly, i'm going to have it autopull a thumb if the url given has opengraph tags. Then if you don't like it, it'll give you the option to upload a new one. I can probably make something work.

2) I think people really need to get over a fear of downmods. It's not the end of the world if one post doesn't go well. I think back to the other site and I'm flabbergasted remembering how negatively some people would respond to an occasional downmod. I think a chatroom would only work if he have a large enough community taking part in the first, if not you're gonna be waiting an hour for a response before making a post. But yeah, a working search would take care of most repost issues anyway.
seneschal said @ 5:51am GMT on 3rd Mar
I eventually did get over that and make some posts, but the community was somewhat more ruthless when there were a lot of posts being made. The whole "be gentle this is my first post" downmod tradition is an example of that. That was culturally somewhat damaging I think, although maybe it helped to ensure that thin skinned people didn't stick around.
midden said @ 2:13pm GMT on 3rd Mar [Score:1 Good]
As one such thin-skinned person, I have stuck around, and I participate in discussions when I feel I have something useful to contribute. But it can be difficult to muster the energy to find primary content for, comment on and add sufficient supplementary material to a post to avoid the ire of others. As a result, I rarely mod a post negatively, although I have no problem doing so to comments.
fishhat said @ 2:30am GMT on 3rd Mar [Score:2 Good]
Facial mostly still works with a little tweaking; right now all features work but it removes usernames from comments, which is bad. I will work on this and post the updated code unless someone beats me to it. It will take at least a few days for me to get this done.
krupa said @ 8:14pm GMT on 3rd Mar
Okay.

Two things are bugging the hell out of me.

1. I get logged out all the time!!! I used to keep myself logged in on old SE, but doesn't seem to work here.

2. I CAN'T POST ANYTHING! The damn things says that I have to wait for 1 hour. Yeah, I did that back-button mistake something like 10h ago!!! Cut me some slack.

3. comment order varies, depending if I'm logged in or not.
kylemcbitch said @ 8:31pm GMT on 3rd Mar
Comment order always varied depending if you were logged in. Logged in: arranged by highest score then by time stamp, Logged out: Arranged only by time stamp.

arrowhen said @ 8:38pm GMT on 3rd Mar
"Highest score, then time stamp" was a user option, mine was always set to newest first.
b said @ 9:23pm GMT on 3rd Mar [Score:1 Interesting]
Nope, I definitely have noticed comments jumping around while I'm logged in. Nothing to do with my settings or whether or not I'm logged. I set my prefs right away and never browse without being logged in, but I'm definitely seeing the order or some comments changing.
steele said @ 2:49pm GMT on 4th Mar
have they been jumping around from moderation maybe? Or is it possible you've been getting logged in and out without realizing it?
arrowhen said @ 3:36pm GMT on 4th Mar
When I kept getting logged out yesterday I noticed it was happening on a per-tab basis. I'd get kicked if I modded or commented, but if I had another tab open that I hadn't modded or commented in, I could still navigate around the site and remain logged in.

On my phone my sausage-like fingers have a hard time switching between more than a few tabs, but when I browse SE on a real computer, I typically open a new tab to comment or mod so I don't lose my place in the original thread. I could easily see not noticing getting logged out in that situation.
steele said @ 3:56pm GMT on 4th Mar
Everything cool now? Only getting logged out when your IP changes?
arrowhen said @ 4:36pm GMT on 4th Mar
Yeah, everything's copacetic.
steele said @ 5:40pm GMT on 4th Mar
awesome :)
steele said @ 8:50pm GMT on 3rd Mar
That is 3 things! :)

1. I can see you're IP changing about once a day, that would cause you to be logged out. Is it happening more often than that?

2. I deleted your abandoned post, you should be able to post now.

3. What kyle said.

4. Just wait till you get to have fun with this code! ;D
krupa said @ 8:57pm GMT on 3rd Mar
Eh, one of the things didn't bug me that much.

Thanks for the deletion, that's good.
Also, I just realised that I think I was always logged on in old site.

As for the IP, well, I'm constantly on the move. Looking back the last year, and projecting this, I'll be changing IP-address pretty much three-four times a day. Sometimes more.
(train, home, cell-phone, work, whatevermeetingwherever, etc.)

SE was a nice breather, so I wouldn't mind being logged in regardless of the IP. But let's see how it goes. Still like it, and now that I know a reason, easier to deal with.

Thanks, I think I like this active management, as opposed to the Marckian Times.
krupa said @ 8:59pm GMT on 3rd Mar
Okay.

It logs me out every time I make a comment. Just to let you know. That's slightly more irritating than when the IP changes. Maybe it's this machine, I don't know.
steele said @ 9:08pm GMT on 3rd Mar
The IP change is for security reasons. But it shouldn't be this often and you're not the only one. I'll get to bottom of it. I appreciate your patience ;)
cb361 said @ 11:35pm GMT on 3rd Mar
I had to delete my cookie for the sit eonce. It's staying logged on now.
steele said @ 11:59pm GMT on 3rd Mar
I just figured out that arrowhen's phone or phone co's proxy was randomly sending old cookies as well. very strange.
arrowhen said @ 12:40am GMT on 4th Mar
Just cleared my cookies.
arrowhen said @ 12:41am GMT on 4th Mar [Score:1 Hot Pr0n]
Yup, that did the trick!
steele said @ 1:03am GMT on 4th Mar
HOORAY! :D And now I'm taking the night off :P
seneschal said @ 1:27am GMT on 4th Mar [Score:2]
If you had a gift button up I would buy you a drink.
steele said @ 3:57pm GMT on 4th Mar
Thanks. I wonder what would happen if I made a button that said "Buy steele a pony" :)
arrowhen said @ 5:37pm GMT on 4th Mar
How about a pony keg?
steele said @ 5:42pm GMT on 4th Mar
I know this may seem like heresy to a lot of people, but I just don't like getting drunk anymore. Herb, on the other hand :)
seneschal said @ 5:49pm GMT on 4th Mar
Herbert is a stand up guy. Who doesn't like Herbert.
steele said @ 5:54pm GMT on 4th Mar
The guberment :(
seneschal said @ 5:57pm GMT on 4th Mar [Score:1 Funny]
At least one person would somehow arrange to send you an anatomically correct My Little Pony model with multiple usable orifices.
arrowhen said @ 6:19pm GMT on 4th Mar
Probably a used one.
HoZay said @ 8:28pm GMT on 3rd Mar [Score:1 Interesting]
Would it be worthwhile to put an Amazon referral link on the sidebar? I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon, I'm sure others do, too. If we accessed them through this site, it might generate a few bucks for site expenses.
steele said @ 8:52pm GMT on 3rd Mar
I actually do have an amazon thing, but the commission on it is so low I don't usually bother with. I'll think about though. Have to check and see if it can be put on an adult-ish site.
mechanical contrivance said @ 9:30pm GMT on 3rd Mar
Speaking of Amazon, can you make it so I can pay you through Amazon Payments? I hate Paypal. I don't even need a subscription.
blacksun said @ 5:47am GMT on 4th Mar
You know...

"sensible erection" has a ring to it. It's because there's humor in it, erections are anything but sensible. Right?

Well, I was thinking about "Sensible Endowment", and well, it kind of takes on a whole different meaning if you think about it. I mean, to be "Sensibly Endowed" would be to have a conservative endowment, or ....

small penis?

So now I'm a paying member to a website for small penises?
mechavolt said @ 12:09pm GMT on 4th Mar
Dunno where you're getting your definition of "sensible".

3. significant in quantity, magnitude, etc.; considerable; appreciable: a sensible reduction in price.
steele said @ 2:47pm GMT on 4th Mar
The original name of theis site was going to be stereotypicallyenodwed in reference to most endowment stereotypes being about well hung until someone reminded me that there are racial stereotypes about not being endowed. But I was using a different definition. my argument was stereotypically endowed was huge while sensible was reasonably sized.

It all works out, that's the great thing about english. we will literally change the meaning of a word just because we feel like using it that way.
maryyugo said @ 2:17am GMT on 5th Mar
It's OK. Naruki compensates.
azazel said @ 2:36am GMT on 5th Mar
My idea was sensiblerejection, playing on the hands off approach of SE. I don't think I ever mentioned it anywhere tho.
arrowhen said @ 2:43am GMT on 5th Mar
It would be weird if the initials weren't SE anymore, though.
azazel said @ 4:10am GMT on 5th Mar
Eh, not weirder than endowment, in my book.

Besides, it could be sensibler ejection. Like, more sensibler than sensible.
seneschal said @ 5:06am GMT on 5th Mar
Why not sensiblest?
brat#3 said @ 5:41am GMT on 5th Mar [Score:2]
sensiblebserection. The only one we really care about.
arrowhen said @ 6:04am GMT on 5th Mar
Sensible Eduction

(Educe: 1. To draw or bring out; elicit. 2. To assume or work out from given facts; deduce.)
azazel said @ 8:37pm GMT on 5th Mar
Sensible Deduction
eggboy said @ 6:30am GMT on 5th Mar
I have to say, I just plain don't like the name sensibleendowment.

Everything else about sensibleendowment.com I fucking love.
azazel said @ 6:49pm GMT on 5th Mar
Yeah, I'm not a fan either, but I didn't voice my complaint when the name was suggested so I can't say too much about it either.
lalanda said @ 7:59am GMT on 5th Mar
Maybe we're changing the wrong word. What about Sensitive Erection?
yunnaf said @ 1:47am GMT on 7th Mar
SensibleE
ComposerNate said @ 2:29pm GMT on 9th Mar
Swollen Erection?
conception said @ 12:29am GMT on 5th Mar [Score:4 Good]
I'll toss out that Reddit had a fun idea. When they first started subscriptions, people who subscribed for the first year were noted as "Charter Members" and are sorta grandfathered into Reddit Gold. I think if you do plan to grow membership, some sort of recognition for those who took a chance on you would be fun, meaningless internet points to have.
ComposerNate said @ 12:42pm GMT on 9th Mar
Or should this be a pure meritocracy based on content provided.
chold_numa said @ 9:40am GMT on 12th Mar
Ha. That took forever.

Firstly, to find out that this place was here (BTW, TYVM steele.ero)
Secondly, to sign up for a new anonymous email address where I could sign up for this site
Thirdly, buy a prepaid credit card
Fourthly, sign up for PayPal (which I've avoided doing for 15 or so years)
Fifthly, to wait for the damn code to authorise my card
Finally, to get time to log in at home (can't do this on my Android phone for some bizzare reason) and look for this entry.

So. Maybe a subscribe/donate link near the top of next to the home/about/search/support/post thing would be cool. Or put it in the About section. Or something.
one_inch said @ 10:41am GMT on 12th Mar
My Android phone won't login either, but then sometimes it does, and then sometimes it logs me out a page or two later and sometimes it doesn't. Something to do with cookies, or possibly the WiFi at work, not sure.
I like stories.
steele said @ 4:41pm GMT on 12th Mar
When this happens let me know when and message me the IP address your phone was using when you tried to log in. I'll check the logs and see what's going on.
cb361 said @ 1:19pm GMT on 12th Mar
Some days you just can't give money away.
steele said @ 4:52pm GMT on 12th Mar
I sent you a message check your PMs.

Yeah, I'll probably put a link up today for the subscriptions and things. I'm a busy bee.
nik said @ 4:39pm GMT on 20th Dec
I just subscribed. It took me AGES to figure out where the fucking link was to do it. But I done it. Now maybe I'll post shit, because I own a piece of this fucking party. Sort of.
steele said @ 4:58pm GMT on 20th Dec
Thank you! Yeah, I haven't been pushing the subscriptions just yet because I wanted to get as much of the basic site upgrades done as possible so people wouldn't think I was trying to take them for a ride. Over the next month or so I'll be finishing up the subscriber features and making it easier to subscribe and buy silver gifts.
nik said @ 6:01pm GMT on 20th Dec [Score:1 Underrated]
Sweet. I love the old SE and want to return the glory days. Hence my new post about fucking crocodiles.
steele said @ 6:24pm GMT on 20th Dec
Sweet. Here's hoping! :)
cb361 said @ 11:12pm GMT on 22nd Dec [Score:1 Classy Pr0n]
You hate crocodiles as well?

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