Wednesday, 11 July 2018

Everyone is loving the new plant-based Beyond Meat burger at A&W, except vegans

quote [ On July 9, A&W launched the country’s first-ever fully plant-based burger patty, the Beyond Meat Burger, at all of their locations Canada-wide.

People who hadn’t eaten fast food in years dropped everything to run to their nearest A&W to get the alternative burger, and there have been plenty of rave reviews in its first two days.

But while the overall reception has been positive, there’s a vocal community of dissenters to the Beyond Meat Burger at A&W Canada, and it might be taking a bite out of their target market: Vegans. ]

A&W is great. They'll replace the bun on any of their burgers with a lettuce wrap, and if you hold the sauce it's just a bag of real food: meat, cheese and veggies.
[SFW] [food & drink] [+5 Trollfood]
[by foobar@2:48amGMT]


Taxman said @ 3:59pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:3 Insightful]
foobar said @ 3:42am GMT on 13th Jul
Rabbit is always on the menu for most people, I'd imagine. I'm fine with horse, it's tasty.
arrowhen said @ 8:20am GMT on 11th Jul [Score:2 Funny]
I'm shocked -- shocked -- to hear that the sort of joyless twats who define themselves by the things they don't do have managed to find something else to complain about.

Vegans are the incels of food.
rylex said @ 1:23pm GMT on 11th Jul
Veganism is a first world eating disorder
Hugh E. said @ 10:56pm GMT on 11th Jul [Score:2]
Foobar, you're in a safe space. Just show on the doll where the bad vegan hurt you.

They won't hurt you again.
foobar said @ 11:00pm GMT on 11th Jul
I'm fine if they just let me eat in peace.
cb361 said @ 8:22am GMT on 12th Jul
I suggest renting a room without a Telescreen.
endopol said @ 2:03am GMT on 13th Jul
What you eat isn't at issue here, really.
foobar said @ 3:41am GMT on 13th Jul
You haven't spent much time around vegans, then. It very much is.
slaytanik said @ 3:58am GMT on 11th Jul
Vegans' concerns are legitimate though, the patty may be good but the final product they're selling is still not vegan. That's a valid complaint.
foobar said @ 5:57am GMT on 11th Jul [Score:-1 Flamebait]
filtered comment under your threshold
captainstubing said @ 7:26am GMT on 11th Jul [Score:1 Insightful]
"They're complaining about it being cooked on the same grill." I would expect any vegan to complain about that. And why shouldn't they?
"They're not wanting to eat a plant based diet..." I think they want to eat vegan. A plant-based patty cooked in beef tallow isn't vegan.

Fair enough, this burger joint doesn't hold it out to be vegan, but I still don't see why you are objecting to them pointing out that it could easily be offered as a vegan option, but is not, which seems to be mostly what is being pointed out by the aggrieved vegans.

foobar said @ 7:44am GMT on 11th Jul
It isn't cooked in beef tallow. It's just using the same tools.

It couldn't be offered in the way they're asking, short of them not serving meat at all. Of course, that's actually what they want. It's not about what they eat, but what they want to force others to eat.
milkman666 said @ 11:05am GMT on 11th Jul
I think your confusing vegans with jews. Their not asking that their food be prepared soley by treants. Their not asking for swamp thing or another high ranking member of the green to consecrate the kitchen after an animal product is cooked. They just want it cooked on its own grill. Like any other restaurant that manages to serve vegan and non vegan food. A separate electric griddle. Yeah, im sure there are vegans that wouldn't eat at any restaurant unless it was soley vegan. I think there are more that are actually reasonable and would like A&W to just address a couple small points.

The Jack Blue's comparison was apt, because the idea of animal products skeeves vegans out. Their concern is not that their food might become haunted by vengeful animal spirits, they just think its nasty. In the same way you'd be grossed out by a crematorium oven serving double duty as a broiler. Its not as if there is a pathogen that would survive the process in the case of the oven or the griddle. Its off putting on a gut level. Its also impractical to give both a thorough deep clean after alternating the product. So you just get a separate appliance. That's reasonable.
foobar said @ 2:24pm GMT on 11th Jul
You really think there's room for an entirely separate cooktop in a restaurant, intended to be left unused most of the time?

Of course there isn't. The goal here isn't any of that's nonsense; they want a cooktop for meat to be removed.
milkman666 said @ 9:18pm GMT on 11th Jul [Score:1 Original]
A 16 inch electric griddle? Yeah. There's room if you want to put up a legit vegan combo meal on the menu. You don't even have to route gas lines. That's feasible.

I also reread the article looking for the part where their demanding A&W become a vegan only restaurant. Id appreciate you telling me where on the page it is. Unless its one of those instances where i have to read between the lines, because that's less about what's there and more about what you're searching for.
foobar said @ 10:29pm GMT on 11th Jul
You haven't been in many kitchens if you think you can just add an appliance for no reason.
rndmnmbr said @ 10:45pm GMT on 11th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
Shit, you haven't been in many corporate kitchens if you think lack of space will stop corporate from making it happen anyways.
foobar said @ 10:49pm GMT on 11th Jul
Heh, fair enough, by why would there here? They've probably gained more in free advertising than they'll lose from butthurt vegan militants.
Jack Blue said @ 5:38am GMT on 12th Jul
So they are militant now? Shit, this is going south fast.
foobar said @ 5:50am GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
If you haven't had the displeasure of being around them, I envy you.
Jack Blue said @ 9:37am GMT on 12th Jul
The ones objecting to the burgergrill in question? No. I'm not even close to that place. Are you?
foobar said @ 3:44am GMT on 13th Jul
Yeah, there's enough of them around here. Not too many, but they sure are loud.
milkman666 said @ 11:38pm GMT on 11th Jul
You're right. It would be insane to just start throwing in appliances for no reason. You'd have me dead to rights if i didn't say "There's room if you want to put up a legit vegan combo meal on the menu. " A&W doesn't. Thats fine. They can if they want. They said themselves in the article they don't consider the meal vegan. The article, which I'm assuming you read because you posted it, pivoted more on how some vegans were ticked because it was being pitched as a vegan alternative. The weird part was how that was relayed. Pseudocelebrities, social media "influencers", not tradtional advertising.
foobar said @ 5:31am GMT on 12th Jul
They have, though. For any reasonable person that's a legit vegan option. Sure, you have to ask to hold the mayo, but how is that unreasonable? People without an arbitrary objection to a particular foodstuff are probably going to want it by default.

Asking for a separate cooktop isn't about veganism, it's about what has to be removed to accommodate that. It's not about what goes on their plate, but about what they want to take off of everyone else's.
cb361 said @ 7:41am GMT on 12th Jul
You need to remember that there are some very anti-vegetarian people on SE. I groaned inwardly when I saw the subject of this post, because any sort of mention spawns a dozen nested comments.
Taxman said @ 10:53am GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Insightful]
I don’t think it’s fair to call the users here anti-vegetarian. For the most part this community tries to be tolerant of choice (even if they may loudly argue the logic of ones decision). No one is saying someone can’t choose to be vegetarian or vegan, they just don’t want to be told they can’t be an omnivore if they so choose.

The concern that foobar and I appear to share is that veganism seems to require not only that the believer not partake, but that EVERYONE not partake. When any kind of concession is made it ‘obviously’ hasn’t gone far enough because non-vegans still exist and the vegans are required to share space with them. Heresy.

For comparison, the last pro-vegan article posted here compared non-vegans to literal rapists.
milkman666 said @ 1:29pm GMT on 12th Jul
I've known a few vegans in my time. I can't say they acted or presented themselves in this kind of a fashion. Would you say that they were just one of the good ones?
Taxman said @ 3:15pm GMT on 12th Jul
They’re not a hive mind or a cult. They’re a diverse group of people that have taken an arbitrary or sometimes medically chosen abstinence from specific product(s). Some (not all) feel a moral righteousness to this action. I actually support that... up and to the point that it affects other people.

People have a tendency to want to spread their ideas. That’s fine. Some are militant about it. Not fine. My negative comments are directed, generally, at those types of vegans (who are still good people, just going too far in their arguments).
mechanical contrivance said @ 2:43pm GMT on 12th Jul
Non-vegans aren't rapists. They're murderers. Get it right.

Unless meat eaters rape the animals before they eat them. Do they?
Taxman said @ 3:27pm GMT on 12th Jul [Score:1 Funny]
It was SE’s local vegan that implied the rapist bit. I did not care for the argument.

Meat eaters are murderers, as are all living things. Living things must die so that other living things might live. If someone wants to argue eating non-sentient, but still living, plants is not the same thing then I say that someone is picking nits.

As for raping animals before we eat them, I think everyone is quite aware of my feelings on civil asset forfeiture. /s

Spleentwentythree said @ 11:01pm GMT on 11th Jul
Don't see a need for a whole extra grill. Just precook the patties and toss them in a microwave, problem solved
arrowhen said @ 8:32pm GMT on 12th Jul
It would definitely be more involved than just buying a new gadget for your home kitchen. Judging by the fast food joints I worked at back in the day you could probably find a place to put an electric grill, but it probably wouldn't be anywhere near an existing electrical outlet. Running an extension cord through a busy commercial kitchen is obviously a bad idea, so while you wouldn't need to route gas lines you'd still need to bring in an electrician. You'd need to rethink the kitchen's workflow and retrain staff to account for the new thing people could burn themselves on. And you'd probably have to deal with fire codes that require ventilation over cooking surfaces.

None of these are insurmountable obstacles, but you'd have to weigh the expense vs the potential income gain from vegan customers -- bearing in mind that the ones who complain the loudest probably still won't want to give a murderous meat-monger their business no matter how many concessions you make.
HoZay said @ 9:29pm GMT on 12th Jul
I played mandolin with the Murderous Meat Mongers in the early eighties.
arrowhen said @ 10:04pm GMT on 12th Jul
Didn't you also play maracas on their mariachi metal masterpiece, "Mazatlán Massacre"?
mechanical contrivance said @ 5:23pm GMT on 13th Jul
Some White Castles sell the Impossible Burger. They cook it on a separate grill from the beef patties.
Jack Blue said @ 7:09pm GMT on 11th Jul
What is most likely. They don't want meat juice on their meat free meal, or they are concerned with the interiour of the kitchen?
foobar said @ 10:24pm GMT on 11th Jul [Score:1 Underrated]
What is most likely is that they object to meat being cooked for others. I have no doubt that they care as much about the molecular contact with meat as they do the dogs they kill to protest pet ownership.
ooo[......7 said @ 6:02am GMT on 11th Jul
"They're not wanting to eat a plant based diet, they want to dictate what everyone else can eat."

That's not entirely accurate, It would seem that the vegans that are simply not satisfied until they get precisely what they want, regardless of what was offered in the first place. A&W never advertised these burgers as vegan, and thus the few loud vegans mentioned really have no leg to stand on.

Its really just a problem that a small vocal minority has. It has nothing to do with the rest of us apart from the remarkable way A&W has taken the lead in healing our planet.

I wish there was an A&W near me, I would order a feast in solidarity.
Jack Blue said[3] @ 6:21am GMT on 11th Jul
"Here is the steak you ordered. The soot? Ah, that's just from the cremetion owen we share with the undertakers. Don't worry, most of it I would not really call human anymore."
"You looked at the ingredients and did not see any human? And we kinda marketed it as a human free steak? You know, as long as we did not state it was completely noncannibalistic, you can suit yourself."
"Non cannibals are warning each other that the steak has human in it. Nah, they're just trying to dictate what everyone else can eat."
foobar said[1] @ 7:42am GMT on 11th Jul
The better comparison would be Muslims complaining about their food being cooked with the same pan that's used for pork.

It's fine to have beliefs that you hold to strongly. It's not fine to try to push them or others, or to insinuate that it's immoral not to follow them.
Jack Blue said[1] @ 11:53am GMT on 11th Jul
Then again I am not muslim, but I happen to be a non-cannibal. I'll stick with what I know rather than making guesses about other values than mine.

Why would muslims be a better comparison anyhow? Because some wanting to project beliefs unto others? I've encountered more preaching meat eaters than I have vegans and muslims combined.

Alright. Human corpses might be extreme. Go with 'juice pressed from the eyes of kittens' or something instead. I wouldnt want to eat that.
foobar said @ 2:21pm GMT on 11th Jul
Really? When have you ever heard someone seriously say vegans should be forced to eat meat?

Your example is still pejorative.

Muslims believe it's wrong to eat pork, but they don't try to force others not to.
biblebeltdrunk said @ 4:48pm GMT on 11th Jul [Score:1 WTF]
Yes, never underestimate how much of an ass rednecks can be. My freind has a red meat allergy because of a tick bite. She thought it would be easier to just say she was a vegetarian and try and bring her own food. One of the people grilling food thought she just needed to get over herself. He lied about having veggie burgers and gave her a hamburger, and sent her to the hospital.
Jack Blue said @ 7:12pm GMT on 11th Jul
What? Forced? Did I say that?
foobar said @ 10:27pm GMT on 11th Jul
I've encountered more preaching meat eaters than I have vegans and muslims combined.

No one cares if you don't want to eat meat so long as you keep it to yourself.
Jack Blue said @ 5:30am GMT on 12th Jul
And in my experience: nope!
foobar said @ 5:38am GMT on 12th Jul
Come on. We both know that's bullshit. I'm sure there's some gentle mocking for playing at ungulate, maybe even a bit of rudeness, but really. No one really cares about what you eat like vegans do about how everyone else does. No one is trying to take foliage away from you.
Jack Blue said @ 9:34am GMT on 12th Jul
You have any more of my experiences to explain for me?
foobar said @ 3:49am GMT on 13th Jul
Just the made up ones.
biblebeltdrunk said[1] @ 12:00pm GMT on 11th Jul
I would compare it to the Muslim freindly restraunt I worked by that had a separate set of glasses and a designated dishwasher for alcohol. Anw probably doesn't make enough of vegans to make a separate grill viable, but I would't say their objections arn't personal.
Spleentwentythree said @ 8:18am GMT on 11th Jul
If this is really a issue, why don't they put their efforts into opening a chain of vegan fast food places instead of whining about not having separate grills set up for just for them?
foobar said @ 8:29am GMT on 11th Jul
Because it's about what other people are eating, not what they do.
damnit said[1] @ 10:46am GMT on 11th Jul
This and the Impossible Burger are not marketed to vegans. It's for someone who wants a healthier food option and considering becoming vegan/vegetarian.

If you go to a restaurant that normally didn't have vegan options, they are not just going to create a separate kitchen for vegan food.

A friend in college was Hindu and vegetarian. She never ate the food in the cafeteria even if it was marketed as vegetarian cause they are prepared with tools used to prepare meat.

It's like Five Guys' Kosher style hot dogs. If you're of Jewish fate and only eat Kosher meat, Five Guys Kosher style hot dogs are not kosher.
Hugh E. said @ 11:24am GMT on 11th Jul
Funny and meta modding is always appreciated, Ankylosaur
5th Earth said @ 11:33am GMT on 11th Jul
My wife and have been eating (mostly*) vegetarian, and in her case largely vegan, since the beginning of this year. Neither of us have any illusions about things like cooking surfaces in restaurants, and we know to always think about all the ingredients in a meal and request accordingly.

If you care that much about controlling your food over some sort of existential fear of poisoning yourself through incidental contact, you just can't eat out, or at least can only eat at dedicated vegan establishments. That's just the reality of the situation and anyone complaining about it is just whining to stroke their ego.

* I have officially declared exceptions for Ceaser salad dressing and sushi maybe once or twice a month, which I consider a sustainably low animal intake. At home we both eat more vegan than not since it's easier to control there.
the circus said @ 3:24pm GMT on 11th Jul
I'll be honest, if you can't notice your preference isn't being met anyway, I'm not really concerned one way or the other. But I know from an immediate family member that that you don't have to taste the peanut product that's making you swell up and can't breathe. She carries an epipen around for that.
Bruceski said @ 6:20pm GMT on 11th Jul
This is why I try to be discreet about keeping kosher. I have actual physical food allergies (peanuts) and I don't want people mixing up what I *can't* eat with what I *don't* eat. There's different thresholds of accomodation for those.
Morris Forgot his Password said @ 8:50pm GMT on 11th Jul
I'll avoid it because the patty is US sourced. That and I avoid ersatz meat products.
HoZay said @ 9:24pm GMT on 11th Jul
Bend over, I'll show you an ersatz meat product.
Morris Forgot his Password said @ 1:53pm GMT on 16th Jul
I have never fancied cocktail wieners.

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